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 Post subject: The design document
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:13 pm 
It is very messy and it isn't fully done since today was a busy day. Woke up and worked all day with my familly so I didn't get everything written out in detail like I wanted here is what I got so far:

Basic introduction and the key mechanics that would need to be implemented:

[spoiler]
Code:
This game is based on a few mechanics I thought would be good, combined with lessons learned from advance wars and

customwars.

What I like about customwars:
-It has a server that can be used.
-Narts and JSR has shown it can be modified more or less easily (some exceptions obviously).

What I like about advance wars:
-Simple yet pretty fun game.
-Diverse units.

What I dislike about customwars:
-The length of a game, I want games that take less time so that people I play don't lose interest quickly. The game will have

indepth tactics and might take a while, but with the elimination of healing units and construction of units should make it

speed up.
-I disliked the giant ammount of custom content that was generated for CW, which actually turned off the average person that

actually PLAYED the game (as opposed to the people that wanted all sorts of shit in but never ended up playing the game:
-Battlecars 'nuff said.

What I dislike about Advance Wars:
-Certain units are too dominant on certan style of maps. Example: artillery+chokepoints.
-Chokepoints that make the game drag on.

The game is set in wwii, I know it is an overdone theatre of war since they are lots of rts, fps, strategy games, etc on this

theatre, but I want to do it on something I have not seen yet. It will be infantry based, bloody city fighting following the

adventures of tank riders, the german belgeit troops and the russian tankovy support corps. Originally I was going to use a

lot of stats of the aw game but then I realised why bother if they were the same. So I decided that I would add in more

infantry. Yet then I thought of all the shitty sniper and mortar ranged units that have been discussed on all the forums

advance wars related and their reception. In comparison to the artillery and what not they always seemed out of place, and if

they were infantry killers why chose infantry. Well in this game i decided not to have mortars and snipers but to add other

classess of infantry weapons, although evenutally might actually add in snipers and mortars. To add in different classes of

weapons involved changing the way we looked at weapons in aw world would mean to break the current game mold. Since this game

is mostly focused on belgeit riders, and tankodesovy riders, it would have to be infantry dependant for tank support. That

being said I thought about the main weapons to use, and it broke up into pretty much infantry fighting weapons and anti tank

weapons. Infantry have 3 main weapons, rifles, smgs, assault rifles. To make them different instead of just damage wise

(which they kind of still are) I added in different effects for weapons. Rifles will do constant damage at all ranges, but

will do less when moving. Assault rifles do less than rifle at long range due to their limitations at more than 500m, mid

range act as rifles, and at close range do a lot of damage. Not to mention they are constant damage at 1-2 range while

moving. Smg only fire 2 squares, and follow the same assault rifle formula, 2 squares away is like a rifle, 1 square away +1

damage than a rifle, but since it has 2 range it will have no damage modifier while moving. Anti tank weapons have been

changed a bit. Germans have fausts which are one time uses but are devastating, the panzershrek can be reused and is also

devastating. Russians on the other hand only had anti tank rifles wich were useless but they soon learned to use satchels

against them. Which brings me to another point: There will be difference in the armies. Germans have units the russians do

not (shrecks, fausts, tiger). Russians have units that germans do not (AT rifle, Satchels and a heavier assault gun.) There

will be clases with multiple weapons, for example an anti tank soldier armed with a assault rifle and a pazer faust, to

accomodate certain maps that represent some battles.

The differences will not be something that imbalances the game, since I plan to have the game balance tested severly. Since

there are no building of units that means everything will be predeployed, on maps released by the developers (no map making

support since it will be hard to balance, that being said we would release maps on a regular basis).

______________________

Currently the game has these mechanics discused that would need to be implented into the cw code:

Movement:
Facing, units have facing that is imporant.

Shooting:
Infantry have all around fire (talked to my brother about it and he said it would be stupid not to fire back if you are

standard infantry. Mg's on the other hand don't rotate to attack so they only fire back if you are in their firing arc)

Movement affects certain accuraccies.
Shooting at targets in certain directions (described in tank facing) is inadequate.


__________________________________________________________________________
Support Setups:
Support class infantry cannot move and fire, since it takes time to set up weapons. However support weapons are devastating

against infantry in the open. To bypass the problem of set up times, they have been given long ranges, and also they can have

free spins at the beggining of their turns and still shoot. It is only when they move that they can't shoot that turn.

Tank Assault:
When directly next to a tank, infantry get the option to tank assault. It is essentially a vicsious attack where infantry

scale the tank and throw in grenades or fire through the visaul slots on tanks. The problem with assaulting tanks are the

machine guns mounted on them especially designed to counter infantry assaults. As such when assaulting tanks they use an mg

before the infantry attack (first strike) giving heavy damage to infantry. The remainder in health of the infantry is the

ammount of damage the tank takes.

10 hp tanks get assaulted by 10 hp infantry, 10 hp tanks do 8 damage (just an imaginary number, no formulas yet) to the

infantry leaving them with 2hp. The tank takes 2hp in damage lowering to 8hp. This mechanic is designed to destroy tanks

outright, but for desperate situations where all your at infantry are killed, or the other method is to do it to already

wounded tanks to finish them off. Since infantry cannot be built or healed this would only be used in desperate or well

thought out situations. Can only be done by "Infantry" class.

Multiclassing infantry:
described further in the infantry section.
__________________________________________________________________________
Vehicle Side Notes:

Recon sucks, it is used for scouting and will get destroyed if used as a weapon. It does have mg which is its only weapon and

is used for finishing off wounded infantry.

Armored cars have more staying power, but do not expect them to last forever if they get assaulted by infantry.

Every vehicle but jeeps can have infantry ride on them. When tanks get shot at by any weapon, infantry riding them will get

hurt too. Transport Trucks get shot up and infantry get hurt in them too. Transports destroyed will have infantry pop out at

whatever health they have left. Tanks destroyed will have no riders survive.

HE/AP: He is highexplosive rounds designed to hurt infantry, AP is armor piercing. He will beat up infantry that are not in

cover, and do a bit of damage to infantry inside buildings. Ap is designed for fighting tanks, He will destroy jeeps and

armor cars but will bounce of other tanks. If possible I would like there to be an auto choosing for he/ap rounds, so if

shooting an armored target it choses ap rounds, shooting infantry an he round. If one runs out it switches to the other one

even if it is garbage against a target.

HeAP round on the ISU-122 is a round that kills infantry in building and destroys buildings too, not to mention it is damn

good against tanks.

Machine Guns (MG) are purely defensive and only play into tank assaults described under tank assault section of the infantry

design mechanics. Recon-Armored Cars cannot use machine guns in defensive fire since they are meant to only scout and not

fire. If assaulting a tank from the front, the mg is 2x effective (since all tanks i have chosen for the game have

hullmounted mg, turret mg, and usually a coaxle mg). This makes hull mounted vehicles susceptable to attacks from the side

since mg's are normal effectiveness from the side. Also, the IS-2 Russian tank has a mg on the back so it is 2x effecting in

front armor and rear armor.


Hull mounted, tanks that have hull mounted can only fire in the field they are facing. All other tanks can shooting in any

field since they have turrets.

Armor: Damage to the front of the tanks is also reduced against other tank shots and anti tank weapons (not against tank

assaulting infantry, but with the mg bonus it might as well be ;) ). Side and rear will have the same value but will be more

damaging than a shot to the front.

Still working out the ranges for all the weapons. I will get back to you on that.
__________________________________________________________________________

Maps and Terrain:
Since the game will be very complex in design and level wise here are the few things I want to implement terrain wise. While

I have a lot of ideas I have yet to balance them in my mind properly but here are the ones I know I want for sure.

Maps will be released by the developpers (no map making support right off the at for the public since the game needs to have

controlled maps to test the game.)

The new terrain features I want to add are essentially walls, buildings and wiring that are destructable, but how to

implement them I have not thought through too much. walls and wiring will not be buildable, they will be part of the maps.

Pioneer/engineer clases could remove them if they start next to them in their turn. Other infantry would have to stop when

reaching the wire and next turn can cross it. Tanks can make a hole moving right through it. This sounds difficult and I

don't think it would work well and may make the game stagnant since no side would want to move through the wire. To conter it

would be incentives to gap it by placing objectives that affect the game. Buildins on will have hp that can get destroyed by

tanks, infantry will get hurt as the tanks shoot the building, but also if the building is destroyed the infantry are too.

That is to make people move around (there will be plent of buildings, this is all about unit facing and flanking in an URBAN

setting).

I was thinking of adding objectives that gives rewards when you capture them. Originally I was thinking of stuff like a one

time ressuply, or a one time unit is brought on fields. Other ones I were thikning of are like king of the hill, hold the

objective x ammoutn of turns to win. Something to make the game fast paced, intense, and non stagnant.

Final thing is the map design. I want to base the maps on some historical maps I have. To do that some buildings will be

different sized and pretty much unique. I want to be able to define a squares function but having different graphics. I am

not saying each grass tile has to be unique, simple features like road etc can be repetitive. Important buildings however, I

don't want a train station looking like 6 normal buildings next to eachother for example. Anyway here are all my thoughts

compiled so far.

Maps would have different sprites showing up based on the battle (example I have different units named for recon units, but

essentially they all act the same. Some battles had bmw motorcycles, other hubel wagons etc.) This would not be neccessary

but like a finishing touch.

______________________________________________________________________________
Unit sprites are going to be done by phil, most of the units in this game are already made by him, and the ones I need can be

made at a moments notice. He agreed to let me use his work and help if need be in the future. As for map desing, I could do

it but I probably won''t live up to the standards narts has set on map sprites.


[/spoiler]
Infantry Mechanics:
[spoiler]
Code:
__________________________________________________________________________
|Infantry Weapons:                                                                                           |         __________________________________________________________________________
Infantry Fighting Weapons

Rifles:
Range: 1-3
Ammo:10
Effectiveness: Reduced accuracy while moving
Army: U.S.S.R. and Germany

SMG:
Range 1-2
Ammo:4
Effectiveness: Rifle damage at 2 squares distance, Rifle damage+ 1 at 1 square distance. 
Army: U.S.S.R and Germany

Assault Rifles:
Range: 1-3
Ammo:6
Effectiveness: Rifle Damage-1 at 3 squares distance, Rifle damage at 2 squares distance, rifle damage +1 at 1 square distance.
Army: Germany

Support:

Machine Guns:
Range: 1-4, Field of Fire
Ammo:4
Effectiveness: Can't Move and Fire (Man Packed Weapon) Constant damage at all ranges
Army: U.S.S.R and Germany

Anti-Tank

Panzer Faust:
Range: 1-2
Ammo:1
Effectiveness: More damage at 1 square distance than 2 squares. 1 Time use and cannot be reloaded.
Army: Germany

Panzer Shreck:
Range: 1-3
Ammo:3
Effectiveness: More damage at 1 square than the square 2-3. Can be resupplied.
Army: Germany

Anti Tank Rifle:
Range: 1-4
Ammo:10
Effectivness: Less damage than 'shrek and 'faust.
Army:U.S.S.R.

Satchel:
Range: 1
Ammo: 1
Effectiveness: Powerfull against tanks, and against units in buildings.
Army: U.S.S.R.

Flame Thrower:
Range 1-2
Ammo: 2
Effectiveness: Powerfull against tanks, and against units in buildings.
Army: U.S.S.R and Germany

_______________________________________________________________________________
|Infantry Classes:                                                                                                     |
_______________________________________________________________________________
Weapons: Infantry Fighting Weapons
Movement: 3
Vision: 4
Side Notes: Can assault tanks (mechanics explained later)

Support:
Weapons: Machine gun
Movement: 2
Vision: 4
Side Notes: Can't move and shoot


Specialist:
Weapons: Infantry Fighting weapons and Anti Tank Weapons
Movement: 3
Vision: 4

Scouts:
Weapons: Infantry Fighting Weapons
Movement: 3 (maybe 4 still debating)
Vision: 5 (4 if movement is 4)

_______________________________________________________________________________
|Infantry SideNotes:                                                                                                  |
_______________________________________________________________________________
Support Setups:
Support class infantry cannot move and fire, since it takes time to set up weapons. However support weapons are devastating against infantry in the open. To bypass the problem of set up times, they have been given long ranges, and also they can have free spins at the beggining of their turns and still shoot. It is only when they move that they can't shoot that turn.

Tank Assault:
When directly next to a tank, infantry get the option to tank assault. It is essentially a vicsious attack where infantry scale the tank and throw in grenades or fire through the visaul slots on tanks. The problem with assaulting tanks are the machine guns mounted on them especially designed to counter infantry assaults. As such when assaulting tanks they use an mg before the infantry attack (first strike) giving heavy damage to infantry. The remainder in health of the infantry is the ammount of damage the tank takes.

10 hp tanks get assaulted by 10 hp infantry, 10 hp tanks do 8 damage (just an imaginary number, no formulas yet) to the infantry leaving them with 2hp. The tank takes 2hp in damage lowering to 8hp. This mechanic is designed to destroy tanks outright, but for desperate situations where all your at infantry are killed, or the other method is to do it to already wounded tanks to finish them off. Since infantry cannot be built or healed this would only be used in desperate or well thought out situations. Can only be done by "Infantry" class.

[/spoiler]
Vehicle Mechanics:

Code:
[spoiler]
___________________________________________________________________________
|Vehicles Mechanics                                                                                            |
___________________________________________________________________________
Logistics+Transports

Logistics vehicles:
Movement type: Tires
Movement Range: 4
Vision: 2
Ability: Able to refuel and resupply units in contact with vehicle.
Army: German opel blitz, U.S.S.R. Zis-V 3 ton
Infantry Capacity:1

Infantry Trucks:
Movement type: Tires
Movement range: 4
Vision: 2
Ability: Transports 2 units
Army: German Maultier 3 ton, U.S.S.R. Studdebaker

Armored Halftracks:
Movement type: Treads
Movement range:
Vision: 2
Ability: Transports 2 units, better protection of occupants, Mg
Army: German Skdz.#
__________________________________________________________________________

Recon:
Movement Type: Tires
Movement Range: 5
Vision: 4
Ammo: 4
Ability: Mg
Infantry Capcity: 0
Army: German; kettenkrad, schwimwagon, kubelwagon. BMW motorcycle. U.S.S.R. Jeep, and Russian Jeep


Armored Cars:
Movement Type: Tires
Movement Range: 4
Vision: 2
Ammo: 8
Ability: MG
Army: German kubelwagon armored turret U.S.S.R. Armored jeep.
__________________________________________________________________________
Tanks

Light Tanks:
Movement Type: Treads
Movement range: 3
Vision: 2
Ammo:10/x
Ability: He
Infantry capacity:1
Army: German panzeriii, U.S.S.R. t-17

Medium Tanks:
Movement Type: Treads
Movement range: 3
Vision:2
Ammo:10/10/x
Ability: He/Ap, Mg
Infantry capacity:1
Army: German Panzeriv, U.S.S.R. T34/obr

Heavy tanks:
Movement Type: Treads
Movement range: 2
Vision:2
Ammo:10/10/x
Ability: Heavy Ap, Mg
Infantry Capicity:1
Army: German Panther and Tiger I's, U.S.S.R. IS-2's/obr
___________________________________________________________________________
Assault Guns:

Stug iv Assault Gun (German)
Movement type: Treads
Movement range:3
Vision:5
Ammo: 10/10
Ability: He/Ap, Mg, Hull mounted.
Infantry Capacity:

SU-76M Assault Gun (U.S.S.R)
Movement Type: Treads
Movement range 3
Vision:4
Ability: HE/Ap, Mg, Hull mounted.
Infantry Capacity:1

ISU-122/obr'44
Movement Type: Treads
Movement range:2
Vision:1
Ammo 5/5
Ability: HeAp/He
Infantry capacity:1
__________________________________________________________________________
Vehicle Side Notes:

Recon sucks, it is used for scouting and will get destroyed if used as a weapon. It does have mg which is its only weapon and is used for finishing off wounded infantry.

Armored cars have more staying power, but do not expect them to last forever if they get assaulted by infantry.

Every vehicle but jeeps can have infantry ride on them. When tanks get shot at by anyweapon, infantry riding them will get hurt too. Transport Trucks get shot up and infantry get hurt in them too. Transports destroyed

HE/AP: He is highexplosive rounds designed to hurt infantry, AP is armor piercing. He will beat up infantry that are not in cover, and do a bit of damage to infantry inside buildings. Ap is designed for fighting tanks, He will destroy jeeps and armor cars but will bounce of other tanks. If possible I would like there to be an auto choosing for he/ap rounds, so if shooting an armored target it choses ap rounds, shooting infantry an he round. If one runs out it switches to the other one even if it is garbage against a target.

HeAP round on the ISU-122 is a round that kills infantry in building and destroys buildings too, not to mention it is damn good against tanks.

Machine Guns (MG) are purely defensive and only play into tank assaults described under tank assault section of the infantry design mechanics. Recon-Armored Cars cannot use machine guns in defensive fire since they are meant to only scout and not fire. If assaulting a tank from the front, the mg is 2x effective (since all tanks i have chosen for the game have hullmounted mg, turret mg, and usually a coaxle mg). This makes hull mounted vehicles susceptable to attacks from the side since mg's are normal effectiveness from the side. Also, the IS-2 Russian tank has a mg on the back so it is 2x effecting in front armor and rear armor.


Hull mounted, tanks that have hull mounted can only fire in the field they are facing. All other tanks can shooting in any field since they have turrets.

Armor: Damage to the front of the tanks is also reduced against other tank shots and anti tank weapons (not against tank assaulting infantry, but with the mg bonus it might as well be ;) ). Side and rear will have the same value but will be more damaging than a shot to the front.

Still working out the ranges for all the weapons. I will get back to you on that.
__________________________________________________________________________
As of now, the game design does not incoporate planes, since planes would only do strage runs and bug out. It might one involve it and if it did I would probably have them as one time uses that shoot up an area (think of it as a missle silo one time use).

If planes were included as a feature that was more than a one time use, anti airguns (not like heavy towed ones but sp machine gun aa's) would probably be included. They would act much like they currently do in advance wars.

I wanted to add artillery into the game originally but when I thought about it, it would be out of scale considering that a rigle shoots three squares and an infantry unit with a rifle shoots 3 squares. That being said the artillery would have to be large, and since the maps would be big to accomodate everything having ranged combat, it would be ridicolously far away so I don't think it would work. If they were added it would be rocket artillery that would either do small aoe damage against vehicle (high against infantry) with low ammo, or hits one unit but gets revealed in FoW when firing (since the smoke trails are a give away)

Originally I was thinking of adding tank hunter tanks, but I beleive it would be redundant with the current tanks. Even if I added them in for other campaigns I still don't think they are worth it unless they only had ap and no he. They would get mauled by infantry because all of the german tank hunters would be hull mounted, and the russian one would be a turret one but with no he and assualted from the side would die fast.

[/spoiler]

All I need to elaborate on now is the terrain of the game, and the rewards and effects of objectives. My biggest fear is the game will stangate where one side will just sit back and wait for the other to attack. That is why I want objectives that have benefits. On the other hand having assault/defend and meatgrinder maps and other cool things would be fun. Remember this is just a rough draft that has been reworked from our discussion in the other thread, and with other people who seem to like this game. It is meant to be played in heavily urban terrain, and the terrain section hasn't been completed worked out yet so we will see how this works out. Also any TL:DNR comments can go to hell. Forgive me it is a massive wall of text, and it will only get longer. Lemme know what you think and what I should change, and I hope I can convince one of you to program this game.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:17 pm 
Excuse a lot of the typos, I will go back and fix them up so everything is more coherent and clear, but not right now.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:40 am 
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 1363
Weeeelll this is a pretty good start. Much more detailed than anything I would have bothered to write for AHC. Very interesting concept, kind of like a Steel Panthers Lite(*) or something, and I'd say it's just about within the realm of possibility as a CW mod but I think you're going to have a hard time implementing all this unless you find a dedicated programmer to help you. The name of the game alone, though is making me want to drop everything I'm doing and rally for the cause but I think AHC still needs me.

I might give more in-depth critique at some point but it will take some time (days, weeks, months) before I digest all this.

(*If you haven't played Steel Panthers: World at War, do now. It's a freely downloadable game based on a commercial WW2 wargame series that is still one of the greatest WW2-based TBS games around.)


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:12 am 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 3:18 am
Posts: 520
This is rather interesting. I actually read the entire document....

Damaging aside, it seems like a fully indirect game. Tanks seems to have dropped to a secondary defensive role as they have much lower movement. While infantry seems to be the king of the game. Unlike AW, you can't build units... which is actually a pretty good idea. It seems to have a nice strategy feel to it just by reading the document.

A couple of questions, I know that you still have a lot of documenting to do in the game.

1) Is it mostly going to be tanks and infantry, or is air and sea warfare going to be part of this game eventually? (D-Day and the British air fleet comes to mind..)

2) Is FOW going to be an option, or a game mechanic (FOW always on)? Which FOW are you planning to use? (The ever so popular DoR Fog, or the not so popular AW2 Fog..)

3) Is meatshielding still there, or will Tank/vehicle units be able to run over infantry?


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:18 am 
@Narts~

Steel panthers started off as a table top game that was hex based, one of the few hexed base games I ever played. I know you can still download it for free off the web but no one ever plays with me (sad face here)

The nickname for the game came from my brother. We both play a lot of flames of war, a table top world war ii game, and they have these books for all the campaigns and armies etc. There are a bunch of them and he is always nicknaming the books based on the title. Monty's meatgrinder became monty's meathammer, and stalin's onslaught became moustache-kreig. I really like the name so thats what I named it for now until something better (it was that or swimpanther no one would get that reference)

It would be stupid hard to implement this, since I know other forms of coding that aren't java. That means i would have to somehow convince you guys to help me. Spriting is already done, like I said phil signed on with me since he loves world war ii and will make more sprites for it.

_______________________________
@JSR~
Tanks haven't been assigned damage values, but I want people to understand there will be no more than 5 tanks (combinations of light,medium,heavy,and assault guns) compared to a lot of infantry. While in a defensive view point tanks can defend themselves, but in real life combat of wwii a tank sitting alone would die by a singe infantry in an urban setting. All it takes is a grenade to a tread, a molotov to the exhaust (diesel engine wwii), flamethrowing through the viewslots. In the game I don't want tanks to be completly undefended, and tanks in wwii indeed had mg's to discourage boarders. That being said though, High Explosive rounds were designed to kill infantry, and infantry in buildings. The assault guns also have another trait I haven't added in yet but that is going to be the bunker buster ability to destroy buildings.

Planes might eventually be added in but not in the sense that advance wars has them in, since advance wars is not wwii.
_______________________________
I am dissapointed, I keep posting while I am logged in as destin and it keeps posting as guest and I can't edit guest posts for typos or to add on to it D:. I will work out the objectives and terrain section and have them posted up tonight. In the objectives section I have an idea for how to implement planes but I will work it out further before I say anything =P


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:14 pm 
Code:
Objectives:
As stated in previous documents (since each section has been interlinked in notepad documents), my biggest fear with everything having "indirect" fire in advance wars standards is the potential for stagnation in the game. Tanks will get destroyed if they are isolated and tied down by infantry, and infantry will get crushed by collapsing buildings if they don't keep moving. Tanks can and will kill infantry. Yet I fear this will promote clumping in meatshield style advance wars with tanks in the back acting as artillery did in normal advance wars. So to try and limit that as much as possible ( I know it is still going to happen) I want to give players incentive to do manouevers. I was planning for 3 main maps to be released with the first iteration of this game to be playtested on. The first one would be attacking as russians, defending as germans focusing on the penal battalions of the russians. The second one would be a free for all between tanks and infantry. The third you defend as russians and attack germans.

Mission 1:
Stalin's Moustache Onslaught:
Russians attack with mostly infantry and a few assault guns.
Germans Defend with mostly infantry, a few support HMG's, and of course a few antitanks.There would be 2-3 objectives that are capturable by the offensive side only, when all of them are captured or when all the defensive forces die the
attackers win. In this case the objectives won't give bonuses or anything, and are just there to force the russian player to fight forwards, while the germans will be split along a few objectives deciding where and how to fight and when and how to fight while falling back. Ideally it should be balanced but we shall see =/.

Mission 2:
Stalin's and Hitler's 'stache off:
Germans and russians attack with a bit of all the troop types.There would be 3-5 objectives, an odd number so that there will be some in the middle of the battle field but with a few extra in the starting zones of enemies. Once again contorlling all of them would be victory on the turn you accomplish it, but on the other hand loosing all your units is also failure. There would be sub-objectives. so far here are the sub-objectives I have thought of:

-Abandoned radio Trucks:
Call in one time use air support:
 -Machine Gun Strafe: Available to Germans and Russians. Shoots machine guns in a template that resembles a straight line (1x4 line , that you can rotate to line up on soldiers). These hurt infantry in no cover like mad, and do slight damage to enemy.
 -Rocket Stafe: Available to Russians. Shoots rockets in a template (A couple small croses (2-3?)) that are damaging to tanks, and infantry in buildings.
 -PanzerKnacker strafe: Available to Germans. Shoots a rapid fire tank cannon in a straight line damaging to tanks.

After called in, it just remains a terrain piece (that way it will still be a bit of coding but I am sure you can base it off a silo that has two options per army side (german: Mg/PnzerKnker, Russian: Mg/Rockets)

-Ammunition dumps:
 -Originall just designed as a one time use for munitions in case your supply trucks bite the dust. Was also thinking of implementing the Sudden-Strike

Ressource style where even supply trucks can run out and can go to munition and gas dumps to refuel and keep handing out supplies. Still think they are just going to be one time use

-Requsitioning points
 -Can't come up with a good name for this, but essentially you get to call in troops from your starting edge. Think of it as a one time lump sum of money that you can use as a factory if that makes sense. You capture it and get "x" funds that you can spend on "y" ammount of units that deploy not from the structure you captured but from where your units started on the map. This would involve a lot of coding etc, and probably won't be worth it since whoever rushes would get a bonus, so if implemented it would have to be with first turn advantage in movement balanced so they arrive in view of eachother so they lign up to fight if that makes sense. Might not be implented though >_>

Mission 3:
Hitler's Moustache Kreig
Same idea as moustacke onslaught but roles reverese, and this time urban setting, (russian one will be super urban and fortified, the german version will be in the outskirts of the city.)


Forgot to answer your other questions jsr... The reason it is only russians against the germans is because I am fed up with the cliched attempts at making a aw style Overlord campaigns by the idiots at AWBW, CW, AWN, WWN, WWBE, SSBW. This game is designed to be two player, to have map support provided through the team (as in no one can make their own maps since the game will be to complex having to program each map seperatly one thing at a time.)

That being said if I ever did do a normandy campaign it would be based on the inwards push by the canadians into normandy, and the missions I would do 'fer vs would be balanced maps (since it is impossible to balance a normandy map when considering the historical. Only way to get around it would be to do it so that if the germans won they one against the first wave, or if the allies win, well they win.) That being said it would follow first canadian armor fighting from juno to caen, to paris, to the rhineland, into berlin. Their opponents would be 712 festung, Luftwaffen/fallschimjager, panzergrenadiers, and hitler youth respectivly. Navy would be so out of proportion for the scope of the game so if used at all it would be like one time use silos since representation on the beaches would blow out the perspective etc.

As for expansions. One step at a time. I want to get a working moustache krieg before I add a monocle moustache kreig expansion. Since most of the battles are going to based on operation bagration, if I did expansion in the same theatre it would go operation firestorm, and the push into berlin all the way to the reichstag.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:47 am 
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I would play SPWAW with you if I only could get it to work. I guess it doesn't like Vista or something. Then again I seem to remember there's another free mod of SP called WW2 something or the other, maybe I would have better luck with that... Otherwise I'm going to have to dig out my old SP2 from the closet and try to get it work on dosbox although it's not the same thing as it's modern battles and not WW2.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:28 am 
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Woaah got it to work this is a blast from the past. I don't think I ever actually played WaW before... yet it feels very familiar.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:52 pm 
Aww, got my hopes up that someone was replying to the next section of the design document D:


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 4:31 pm 
Code:
Maps and Terrain:

Pretty much all the terrain that we currently have in advance wars with a few exceptions:

Buildings have hp (like a pipe seam that can be broken by certain weapons.) When buildings get destroyed they become ruins. Tanks can't move into buildings but they can go into ruins. Ruins give less cover since it is encouraged for troops to move between buildings when they move.

Barbed Wire: We were talking about barbed wire, but to include them we would need a class that can destroy them. Essentially you can't walk through them, ifantry have to start their turn next to one before they can cross it next turn. However tanks can just destroy them by going through. If we add it maybe adding a unit like engineers that can destroy any piece they end their turn next to.

As stated before there would be objectives on the maps, they would be the only capturable terrain in the game. That being said it would take two turns with a full hp unit to make it fair otherwise a sami move to win the game when you were playing stupid would be gay. Anyway that being said subobjectives would be more like silos. Radio Trucks, munition dumps and requsition points would be one time uses but would still give some cover afterwards.

Maps:
Like I said these maps are fairly complicated with triggers and objectives. That being said each one would have to be manually programmed and made but this would allow only quality maps and more input from the people that will play. Since the game plan is only to have 3 maps come out at first it should be easier to balance the units before we focus on going wild with more maps.

Eventually we would either make it so that other people can make maps or do like a monthly map release. Anyway that's all for the game.


Ok that is the whole design plan for the game. Now anyone can look at the game as a whole and give all their input and what they like/hate about the game, what they would and would not implement etc. If someone were to start making this game I would totally fall in love with you. So far the music is done, the sprites are done (minus map sprites). All that really leaves is a programmer that knows how to do all this =P. Anyway so thanks for the support I guess this topic will just stagnate here until either someone picks it up or I learn java XD.

@Narts:
I tried to install it but it isn't working on my comp D: I wouldn't mind playing against you.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:52 pm 
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Did you run mech.exe? That made it work for me.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:04 pm 
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I am going to redownload it later since it doesn't seem to be working for me. Been up for a few days doing work around the house to make it a bit more livable, came down with a bad cold so I am going to hit the sack for pretty much as long as I can. As for what happened at AWN, sorry in advance, didn't formulate what i wanted to say as well as it could've been said.

Image

Let me know what you think abou the game so far. Since that is pretty much everything I would like the game to be and includes all the mechanics. I still think it is overly complex and ridicolous, but then again it reflects me XP.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:08 pm 
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I still don't know what to think about it since the design is indeed quite ridiculously complex. Just give me time to take it all in. I don't think I'll be able to help much before I've finished AHC though. On the other hand that could come sooner than you think since I've already implemented pretty much 90% of the features I wanted programming-wise, so most of the work ahead of me would be graphics and balancing.


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 Post subject: Re: The design document
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:54 am 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Finish AHC, I can wait as long as it takes, after all I been with cw for a long time now anyway XD. Just make sure your game is 100% awesome before coming to help me XD


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