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 Post subject: Pleasant Wars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:25 am 
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I am rethinking stuff with this!

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Last edited by Kristoph on Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pleasant Wars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:25 am 
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I remember running across this while editing the wiki. Interesting stuff.

As far as implementing it, the goal of CWT is to make modding something like this relatively easy, even if you have little to no programming experience. See my "AdvanceCraft Proposal" for how customizable the team intends it to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Pleasant Wars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:46 pm 
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I just want to give some feedback to some of your ideas from the dev team. We're happy to get ideas in the beta stage because we can implement additional mechanic easier in this state than in later releases. :mrgreen:

Properties

Quote:
All properties are owned from day 1


There will be a round config tag for that.

Quote:
Income = (# of starting properties) x (2000)


No problem a round config tag will be available.

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Income does not increase if you capture another property, nor does it decrease if one of your properties is captured.


Could you describe a bit more in detail?

Quote:
Instead, you may choose to “upgrade” any City to a Base at the cost of 1000g per day. The base can only build units every other day, though... upgrade a City to an Airport or Port, at the cost of 2000g per day. Again, they can only build every other day. The specific numbers are obviously untested and therefore temporary, but the point is that this is the most expensive option.... By the way, you may choose to DOWNgrade a Base, Airport, or Port. It becomes a city, and you gain 1000g in daily income


Interesting... I will discuss with JSR about that.

Quote:
Your opponent is never explicitly alerted of an upgrade or downgrade, so maybe you can catch them by surprise with this somehow.


Depends on the thing above.

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Oh, and since this system seems a lot more flexible, the starting positions of properties is randomized. E.g.: on Day 0, if a player has 8 starting properties, 4 of them will be randomly assigned as unit-building properties, while the rest will be assigned as Cities.


Something like this is in the ideas pool.

Capturing

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Also, for one day, your opponent cannot build any units at all.


Sounds strange. Only on the captured property or the whole pool of factories?

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Also, you gain another HQ.


This is actually under review because JSR and me having the same idea about this.


HQs and Towers

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HQs can be destroyed, like pipe seams.


Possible in 0.3.5 if you set HQ as destructable property.

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If any one of your HQs is destroyed, you lose.


What's the reason to have more HQ's if loosing one means loosing the game?

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On maps with Towers, capturing a property may result in one of your Towers becoming a new HQ. This means you have two HQs, which makes it easier for your opponent to destroy one of them.


Wow... this sounds strange and tends to kill the skill requirement in a game because the win conditions getting easier by increasing numbers of properties. :(

Unit Upgrades

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This is actually exactly the same as DoR’s “Veterency” system, but instead of 3 levels, there are 2.


No problem to realize.

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Oh, there is also another difference, which is that each CO has completely different upgrades, and almost none of them are just boring unit stat increases.


Very interesting idea!

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Oh yeah, and each HQ can build exactly one fully Upgraded unit, for 50% additional cost (DoR-style).


Only CO detach is planned.

Weather
This is where I’m going to lose some people.

Quote:
Once a turn, the player may choose the Forecast option from their HQ. Here, they can choose to change the weather for their next turn. There are three types of weather: Snow, Rain, or Sandstorm.


Yikes.. strange but a 30 minutes development to implement that. So because it's fast to implement we may add it for mods but sounds very strange.

Quote:
It costs 40% of your income to do this. But actually that’s just the base cost: the real cost decreases if you have LESS meter in your CO Power bar than your opponent.


Now it's becoming complicated.

Units, Terrain, and other Details

Quote:
Fuel and ammo? What’s that?


Ammo limit can be removed in the current build, fuel not. With the AWDS mod issue fuel should be possible too because we implement the Oozium which don't follows the fuel and ammo rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Pleasant Wars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Veteran status

This is possible in the current script system. With implementation of the unit rank you get a tag available in the scripts.

Code:
  * SKILLED
  * VETERAN
  * ELITE


You simply can place a rule in your CO object in your mod file. E.g. ANDY places +1 move point to ELITE units would be:

Code:
  co:{
    ANDY:{
     d2d:[
       { all:["ELITE"], movepoints:+1 }
     ]
    }
  }

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 Post subject: Re: Pleasant Wars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Oh wow thanks for the comments, I didn't expect info on whether this stuff was implementable or not, hahaha! Definitely appreciate it.

Quote:
Could you describe a bit more in detail?

If my opponent and I both have 16000g per day in income, and I capture one of her properties, then my income is still 16000g per day-- unchanged.

In Advance Wars, my income would increase to 17000g, and hers would decrease to 15000g. The problem is that in AW1 and 2, that's a really large advantage-- so large that just capturing two of the opponent's properties is usually considered an insurmountable advantage in competitive games. Even when it's not an insurmountable advantage, though, it's a really boring kind of advantage: the kind where the advantaged player is encouraged to play extra safely and defensively, in order to slowly take advantage of their automatic economic advantage.

In Pleasant Wars, the positional advantage of gaining a property is more pronounced, because (1) there are fewer properties, and (2) no matter what you captured, you can turn it into a base if you want. There's still an economic advantage, though (your opponent can't build units for a turn). It's a more temporary advantage, though, and is intended to encourage players to press forward after capturing a property instead of just backing off and defending for the rest of the game.

Quote:
Sounds strange. Only on the captured property or the whole pool of factories?
The whole pool.

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What's the reason to have more HQ's if loosing one means loosing the game?

The advantage is that you can build one instantly upgraded unit from an HQ (for 50% extra cost). The goal is for this to be a strong advantage for most COs, so there's an additional, powerful incentive to capture properties-- but it's also a temporary advantage that can put the player into a precarious situation if they squander it, or if their opponent outsmarts them.

Quote:
Wow... this sounds strange and tends to kill the skill requirement in a game because the win conditions getting easier by increasing numbers of properties.
Yeah, this is definitely something I'm concerned about. I don't think it's an issue of "skill requirement" though-- my concern is more like, "what if this stops people from wanting to capture properties in the first place?" Anyway, the goal is to give the capturing player an advantage, while also forcing them to remain offensive. If they capture a property but make poor followup decisions, they might end up losing the exchange despite winning a property. But if they capture a property and take clever advantage of the opponent's temporary lack of unit production, or their extra Upgrade unit, they can force a very strong advantage. I'm not sure how it might work out in practice, though.

Quote:
Now it's becoming complicated.
Yes; it accomplishes what I want it to accomplish in terms of the interaction between players, but of course I have no idea how any of this could actually be programmed/implemented.

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