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 Post subject: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Since I'm going to branch Ad Hoc Wars into a new project, I thought it would be fair to give people of an idea of what it's about. The new game is called Ad Hoc Commander, because it's a more refined continuation of, or a "sequel", to Ad Hoc Wars, and because it will finally include CO's.

Note that I'm not intending this is a replacement for Ad Hoc Wars. AHW will still exist as a separate game, and may still be developed, and tweaked for balance. However my personal focus will be on this new project.

This is not a detailed design document, just a quick draft to give you people a glimpse of what I'm planning this game to be like.

BASIC GAME MECHANICS

I want to make this game deterministic and complete knowledge (outside from fog) - just because I can. So essentially, luck damage replaced with +5 damage to units across the board, and subs are visible when dived.

I also want DoR style experience / unit veterancy because it's leet and I love micromanagement.

Otherwise the game directly inherits everything from Ad Hoc Wars. Lol I'm lazy.

OK I've been musing about some ideas I might like to try, but they are speculative at best, so not sure if I want talk about them yet.

Scroll down to the COMMANDERS section to see discussion of the mechanics related to COs.

UNITS

I have been thinking of adding 6 new units. Most of them are old familiars from CW, DS, and DoR with some modifications/screwarounds so nothing too revolutionary.

Spec Ops - A special forces infantry unit that has 4 infantry movement and a primary attack with 1 ammo that OHKO's artillery and other vehicles that can't defend themselves (i.e. have no direct counterattacks) - this signifying the use of stealth to get close enough to set up a charge of high explosives and blow up the target.

The APC is split into two unit types:
-IFV, which is kind of like the DoR flare, with a combat ability slightly stronger than a recon, but weaker than a tank, but instead of having a fog revealing ability, it can transport one infantry unit.
and
-Convoy, which is a truck with wheel movement that can transport two infantry units, and resupply and repair other units black boat style.
Although the APC *could* conceivably co-exist with these two units, I'm axing it because I don't think it's worth it trying to balance three different ground infantry transports.

Anti-tank - Not to be confused with the DoR anti-tank, this is basically the B-craft from CW, but with wheels instead of hover movement. A direct attack unit that counters tanks on first strike, but has paper thin defence.

Destroyer - the CW unit making a comeback. No significant changes. Direct attack naval unit that counters the cruiser, but is countered by the sub.

Corvette - A-craft from CW but with standard naval movement. An indirect unit, like a mini-battleship, or the rough equivalent of artillery on sea.

TERRAIN

I want to add one (just one) new terrain.

Platform - The naval equivalent of a city. Has 5 capture points and gives 2000 income. 0 defence stars. Landers are given a capture ability of 5, allowing them to take a platform in one turn, or a port in 4 turns.

COMMANDERS

Charging will basically happen like in DoR - each "star" is worth 10HP of damage done to enemy units, no matter their type or cost in funds. The charging area is global, i.e. no CO zones. Likewise, the area of effect of the d2d skill is global as well. Obviously, because of the global charging, the meter should be longer than just 60HP, but the exact length may vary depending on the commander used. Each commander has 1 power and 1 skill, like in AW1 and DoR.

Now we come to the exciting part: Each CO has their own unique signature unit they can summon onto the battlefield at a nominal cost much like a normal unit, but you can only have one of them in play at any time. This CO unit projects no zone or has any other special effect on play, but is considerably more powerful than a typical mass produced unit. Its exact attributes depend on the specific commander used, so it's an actual unique unit type in itself, with its own sprite and everything, not just a generic unit with an added CO zone. In terms of fluff CO units would be more fanciful and less "realistic" than normal units to reflect their nature as experimental secret weapons using bleeding edge technology not commonly available.

Different CO units might include:

-A fast and powerful hovercraft having the ability to move between land and sea through beaches (see: CW hovercrafts)
-A massive landship that crawls slowly on roads and plains and is stopped by any rough terrain but has a really powerful long range attack.
-An airship
-A huge naval dreadnaught, like a battleship mk 2
-A fast and strong supertank
-A DoR style carrier that can make air units
-Another unit that can make some other units
-Mobile Infantry. FLYING infantry that shoots NUKES!!!

etc. etc. You can see ideas for these are pretty easy to come up with.

Overall this CO system should allow for a quite extensive cast of characters each with their unique playstyles, without being overtly complicated.


Last edited by Narts on Mon May 04, 2009 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Wait a minute...

I am loving the new idea, but how about the old AHW spritesheets and ideas. Without tender loving care, they are sure to... go up in smoke. Couldn't you just, somehow, mold this idea into your current one so we could use the artwork. It'll be a pity just to let all that old material go.
OR...
Maybe you can just transfer me the old artwork and I'll organize it into spritesheets. I would use that picture you have posted on the wiki, but the images came out too small and pixelated.

Anyway, the idea seems good so far. With new features to consider as well when it comes to units and CO's. Keep it up...

-JSR...


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:39 am 
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I can easily use those graphics with this project. In essence this is Ad Hoc Wars, just with a refocused plan. The reason I'm making a separation between the two is that I want to keep the "original" Ad Hoc Wars around as a useful starting point for modders and as an alternative for players who just prefer simplicity. It's not like anyone is running around methodically hunting down and deleting old unused files here. The AHW source remains on the repository for anyone who cares.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:17 am 
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First prototype is available: http://code.google.com/p/customwars/downloads/list

Includes units, platform terrain and determinism. CO's are still to be done.

I'm considering a streamlining of the CO system - ditching the power in favour of a system where the CO only has a d2d skill and a CO unit that would be deployed by using the charge from a full power bar. The bar couldn't be charged while the CO unit is alive.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:39 pm 
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wouldnt co units be unrealistic?

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:29 am 
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Possibly.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:31 am 
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Only got a bit of time to read through this, I am about to head out for an exam. From what I read, it seems pretty good, in face I like it quite a bit. There are few things I have issues with, the first one has to be with the special operations unit. A ohko against artillery sounds really good but how much does one of these units cost in comparisson to the rest. The other thing was about the offshore platform, originally I thought it was bad but upon further introspection of the game I beleive it would be super fun. Since it can be captured in one day as a lander it would make interesting sea battles where you could purposly let the enemy re-capture/capture one just to have it sunk by a battle ship waiting away. It would be even more amusing on a map where shipping lanes for supplying troops to the main battles would be vital. All that being said my one question is how is the navy going to play a role in this game, will they be cheaper etc? Anyway when I get home I will try and download it and let you know what I think about the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:52 am 
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Spec ops costs a quite conservative 3000, making it more expensive than heavy infantry(mech). I'm not certain how exactly it will affect gameplay, and this is why I find it interesting and worth the try. If it turns out overpowered it would be simple to remove the HE attack, making it just a slight variation of the bike from dor. (slower movement overall, but not hindered as much by rough terrain, and being able to ride infantry transports.)

The reason for adding the platform was that land-bridgeless naval maps in AW tend to be stalemates because of the high cost of invading land from sea. Platforms are just a way of having a volatile income base to fight over on these kinds of maps so that Normandy invasions are not necessary for gaining fund advantage - instead you gain the advantage first and then invade (if your opponent didn't already resign at that point). Theoretically should also make maps with no land fronts at all possible.

There are no major changes to the navy at this time. I believe the existence of platforms gives enough of a reason to use naval units on maps that have them.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:52 am 
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I got home and tried playing it, doesn't work with my compy o well. I will try and get it to work later. Also I have a friend who likes aw and we spend a lot of time doing sprite collaborations together, you can probably expect us to maybe have a few games between spriting or waiting between collab hand offs. I have one idea about platforms i am dying to try, I will see how they impact navy first though when it is time to play and I will leep my idea in my head till then.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:58 am 
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Sorry about the bump, i just need to get something across to you narts, do you still have your parrallel galaxy (dark matter?) purple sprites. If so can you send them to master-artisan@hotmail.com. Thanks its just something that is plague the fuck out of me and I need some consilidation.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:37 am 
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Did you extract it into a working installation of Custom Wars (version shouldn't matter, but beta 27 works at least) before running the jar?


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:20 pm 
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I'm trying to test the game myself, and I have a question. When you say "Extract it into a working installation of Custom Wars before running the jar", do you mean put the "ahc" executable .jar file into the same folder? Every time I try to make a new game it freezes.

As an aside, I love the idea of sea properties, and while I'll miss the COPowers, the COUnits sounds intresting. I'm worried about how difficult it would be to come up with and balance all those units, but if it works it will be awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:30 pm 
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Narts wrote:
Did you extract it into a working installation of Custom Wars (version shouldn't matter, but beta 27 works at least) before running the jar?


ya i did and it didn't work anyway t-t

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Artea wrote:
Narts wrote:
Did you extract it into a working installation of Custom Wars (version shouldn't matter, but beta 27 works at least) before running the jar?


ya i did and it didn't work anyway t-t


Told ya this would happen Narts... lol :P


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:39 am 
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Like I said, it doesn't matter because this is a prototype, not a full release intended for mass consumption. If kiwi can play it I'm happy, everyone else can go to hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:00 pm 
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The more people who play it, the quicker glitches and such are found, and the more feedback you get. Both of those things help the final product.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:50 pm 
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I learnt not to bother with narts lol, he has his own reasons and they work since he has perservered this far.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:22 am 
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UserShadow7989 wrote:
The more people who play it, the quicker glitches and such are found, and the more feedback you get. Both of those things help the final product.

Then play it. Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:07 am 
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Place the jar file in the same folder as the normal beta 27 jar file.
It'll look something like this:
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you'll also want to make sure you can play the normal game at all
if you can't, try updating java or kicking your computer until it works.

also why is crap wars so huge?


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:47 am 
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What options are you using for exporting your jar? Either you are exporting unnecessary crap or you're not compressing, or both. That's all I can think of anyway. Apparently the Custom Wars jar is larger than AHW/AHC as well... hmm.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:10 am 
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I'll look for compression options next time
I'm also using NetBeans, does that make a difference?

and other question:
how will CO units be implemented? won't it be a bitch to come up with damage charts for each one, and every time a new one is introduced you have to go back and put those in too?


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:38 am 
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kiwi wrote:
I'll look for compression options next time
I'm also using NetBeans, does that make a difference?

I don't know, but I don't think it should. You could always try compiling with eclipse and see what happens.

kiwi wrote:
and other question:
how will CO units be implemented? won't it be a bitch to come up with damage charts for each one, and every time a new one is introduced you have to go back and put those in too?

Basically, yes. However I'm not planning there to be an atrocious number of CO's, so this shouldn't become an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Tentative list of changes for next version. May update this if I come up with more.

City defence down to 2 stars

Battleship range: 3-6, move+fire

Corvette: move+fire, ammo:1 (possibly, with nerfs to movement/range/attack, depending on how über it seems)

Anti-tank: Cost down to 8000

Submarine: Cost down to 18000

Heavy Tank: Movement up to 6

Addition of COs. Every CO will have a charge meter of 100HP (of damage inflicted to enemy). No powers or d2d skills, charge is used purely to summon the CO-specific special unit. These units should be near unstoppable by cheap regular units such as tanks or artillery, but weak enough to be countered with more expensive units like hvy tanks and rockets. Players should not be required to counter a special unit with their own special, and no special should work as an absolute counter against another, to avoid the rock/paper/scissors effect.

These five commanders will (possibly) make an appearance:

Leone. Special unit: Einhorn - a stronger variant of an IFV, that can transport two infantry and heal other units
Maude. Special unit: Calypso - a hovercraft with direct attack capability against most units, and the ability to transport ground units
Klaire. Special unit: Skyfox - A stronger gunship, with the ability to transport infantry
Hackmann. Special unit: Landwolf - a frightful tank.
Reuben. Special unit: Braithwaite - a long range cannon.

Also, I'm going look if I can copy-paste the unit veterancy code from Black Dawn.


Last edited by Narts on Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:34 am 
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How are CO units deployed? Do they spawn on the appropriate allied production facility of your choice, ready to move?

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:50 am 
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They will be deployed on production facilities like other units, only they cost the full CO bar instead of funds.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:48 am 
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ahhh cruisers can't attack subs

so even though dived subs show up, you still need something adjacent to them in order to attack them?


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:47 am 
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Yes, they're like hidden units in mist when dived.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:46 pm 
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New Ad Hoc Commander release!

Get it here: http://customwars.googlecode.com/files/ahc090502.zip

The zip contains everything needed to run the game.

-There are now CO's. I scrapped the CO system I was planning before because it was too ambitious. 10 CCO's from Custom Wars make a return. Their stats are exactly the same as in Beta 27, except their power bars are changed. Also powers charge simply by one star for every 10HP of damage dealt to enemy units.

The returning champions are: Alexis, Ember, Graves, Mary, Mina, Peter, Sabaki, Smitan, Sophie and Tempest.

As you can probably guess these CO's were selected primarily based on their sprites. They may be due to change radically in subsequent releases.

-Unit veterancy system: There are four levels of experience incurring certain advantages to units in combat:
0: (green) +0 / +0
1: (hardened) +5 / +5
2: (veteran) +10 / +10
3: (elite) +20 / +20

-Cities only have 2 terrain defence stars.

-Hvy Tanks have 6 movement points.

-Partial implementation of the Ad Hoc tileset

-Possible other minor changes I'm forgetting.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:12 pm 
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I'm glad to see I don't have to deal with walking battleships next.

Do you think veterancy can be added to the intel box? It can be difficult to distinguish sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:25 pm 
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says you, landships always kick ass
but I figured it'd be a pain to implement

so I'll just stick with my main man Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:43 am 
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oh man this is awesome
DP motions AHC be made the official thing and for once I agree

anyway what do you mean when you say you'll CHANGE the COs? tech adjustment? or sexy Narts art?
I was almost worried Graves would overrun Peter, but as long as it's an all-ground map they're about even


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 2:25 am 
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Quote:
anyway what do you mean when you say you'll CHANGE the COs? tech adjustment? or sexy Narts art?

Both. Possibly complete creative revamps even. I've not completely decided what to do with them though. I only decided this morning I would revert to using these 10 CCOs and then I just coded it so and uploaded the thing so lol. I have a tendency to change my mind about things often, and I'm also looking into things like bringing CO Zones into the mix so things can indeed CHANGE quite a bit. On the other hand if a lot of people think the system is fine as it is, or if they want some specific CHANGE introduced, it can of course influence my decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Having played a few games now I'm rather comfortable with HP charge on attack without having to manage a zone, but you could still do it if you wanted. However, I'm thinking it would be to the detriment of some of the COs unless you had something in mind to keep them all somewhat usable. Not having everyone's powers be the same cost when they do different things would help.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 2:25 pm 
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Chances are that once I'm done with them, they won't even be the same CO's anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander (or: AHW the next generation)
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:10 am 
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Lol. Just noticed there is a bug in the charging system that causes YOUR charge meter to fill by the damage that the enemy does to you in counterattack. Will naturally be fixed in the next version.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 6:00 am 
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090516 released!

Download it here: http://customwars.googlecode.com/files/ahc090516.zip

Source: http://customwars.googlecode.com/files/ ... 16_src.zip

CO's have been revamped. There are now only 6 commanders each with their special Apex level unit you can deploy once the commander's Prestige meter is full. Prestige is gained by damaging enemy units. Deploying an Apex unit doesn't cost money, but empties the Prestige meter. The commanders themselves don't have an effect on the gameplay other than through their Apex unit.

Every Apex unit is related to a basic unit type and can join with their basic counterpart, although no refunds are given in this case. Indeed Apex units are just upgraded versions of normal units with a bonus of +30 to both attack and defence compared to their level 0 basic types and some extra abilities specific to their type.

The commanders and their units are:

Leone
Apex unit: Einhorn (IFV type)
Apex specialties: 7MP, 2 transport slots
Apex cost: 600pr

Mary
Apex unit: Shock Infantry (Hvy Inf. type)
Apex specialties: 3MP
Apex cost: 300pr

Mina
Apex unit: Skyfox (Gunship type)
Apex specialties: 8MP
Apex cost: 1000pr

Peter
Apex unit: Landwolf (Hvy Tank type)
Apex specialties: 7MP
Apex cost: 1000pr

Smitan
Apex unit: Braithwaite (Artillery type)
Apex specialties: 7 max range, 2 min range, 2MP
Apex cost: 900pr

Graves
Apex unit: Black Ops (Spec Ops type)
Apex specialties: 5MP, 2 ammo
Apex cost: 400pr

Unit changes:
-Corvette has artillery range, can fire after moving, has 1 ammo and 5 movement
-Rocket has artillery range, can fire after moving, has 1 ammo, buffed damage versus infantry units, nerfed versus vehicles, cost 10k

Misc changes:
-User can access the unit base damage chart from the battle menu
-Unit ranks shown in the unit intel box
-Prestige is shown as a precise number as opposed to the vague star sprites of the AW power bars.

Bugfixes:
-Charging works correctly.

There may be minor changes I'm forgetting.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 6:46 am 
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Did you decide to scrap the one-specialty-unit-at-a-time limitation? It seems you can have more than one.

Are apex units only deployable on the production facility of their normal counterpart?

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 6:49 am 
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Yes, and yes.

It would suck royally to be the guy who does nothing but deploys one infantry. This way I can have more variety and the apex units don't need to be that super to have an effect on the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Leone <33333333333333333
Kinda was hoping she would have the big md tankt but transport rocks too...

Now if you could do a klaire and maude I would be fhsdfljhasfl; C:


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 1363
Mina is pretty much the stand-in for Klaire.


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