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 Post subject: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:15 pm 
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and we're back
or not

ANYWAY I attempted to add transport abilities to the Skyfox but that didn't fly, but now tanks do, heh
also implemented some shitty balance ideas, like super units are no longer free
also also I found the REAL compression option so now the jar file is sexyfine
http://rapidshare.com/files/260871023/a ... 9.zip.html

Leone: 700pr, 5000, 130/130 IFV 7 move
Mary: 600pr, 1000, 130/100 mech 3 move
Mina: 700pr, 7000, 130/130 bcopter 7 move
Peter: 900pr, 9000, 115/90 mdtank 7 move
Smitan: 900pr, 6000, 100/80 artillery range 3-5 move 2
Graves: 600pr, 3000, 110/110 spec ops move 5 (no longer mech move)

due to the way ranks were implemented, it looks like you get a gain by joining shock infantry, since their rank is under 4

oops

new
Ember: "Calypso" 700pr, 7000, 110/110 anti-tank hover move 6
Sophie: "Dragoon" 700pr, 8000, 110/110 tank air move 5

the Calypso costs 7000 to deploy, not 6000 as seen in the description
I just didn't want to open Netbeans again just to fix a typo, sorry

rank CHANGE
0: Green +0/0
1: Hardened +10/0
2: Veteran +20/0
3: Elite +30/0
4: Apex +30/30
5: Tactical +15/-10
6: Prototype -0/20
7: Covert +10/10

so yeah uh hope Narts doesn't mind
I wanted to upload somewhere nicer since this isn't crap wars but I don't really know where that would be
well I'm sure that's ANYWHERE but I mean, specifically, what's a nice classy upload service everyone uses?


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:33 am 
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Yeah I don't care

Do whatever

Try pestering those guys to give you upload access to the google code

I think you could hack the skyfox to transport stuff if you make gunship a transport class (look at the t-copter's java file for reference), but so that the default gunship has 0 cargo holds (or all units are illegal cargo) and then you change it for skyfox. Or if you don't care you could just make gunships transport inf and that's it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:44 am 
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With kiwi still out I can try some other ideas he thought were stupid. They probably are stupid, but that's why they might work.

The big goal right now is to scale down special units. Originally they were deployed by dealing damage to opponents, but this type of charging was too fast. Adding monetary costs to the units provides another check to their power but also adds another variable that needs to be ironed out. And I realize if I keep talking we'll end up with a wall of text, so to keep things simple: ahc 04.08.09 here

CO units deployed at 600, 800, or 1000 prestige
Basically 600pr units can be handled by light units, 800 by tanks and the like, and 1000 confer the most game change and so cost the most. The difference between the tiers, for lack of better term, is much like short vs. long bars in the old games; 600 vs. 800 is a 400 prestige difference between consecutive deployments, for example.

COs have access to 2 units
Mina is basically useless without an airport, and other COs have a worse or better time depending on the map as well. Like adding another variable to CO unit deployment, it might be, uh, something to give COs a couple options. More options makes things more complicated, but I also don't want things so simple that one or two COs basically edge out everyone else. Like Isabella in DoR.

So those are the two things I tried this time and my shoddy reasoning.

COs
Leone: 800/1000, Einhorn/Calypso
Mary: 600/800, Shock Infantry/Dragoon
Mina: 800/800, Skyfox/Einhorn
Peter: 1000/600, Landwolf/Shock Infantry
Smitan: 1000/1000, Braithwaite/Landwolf
Graves: 600/800, Black Ops/Skyfox
Ember: 1000/600, Calypso/Black Ops
Sophie: 800/1000, Dragoon/Braithwaite

Note that deploying a CO unit will deplete all prestige, so use them wisely. Similarly, I don't know how to set "equal to or greater than," so you actually need at least 601 to deploy a CO unit at 600 if the CO has more stars to fill <_<

Units
Black Ops 2 ammo
Skyfox carry 2 infantry
Calypso carry 1 ground unit
Anti-tank 10000 cost but now have tread movement

Also added two ranks but they're not used yet; they're for stat tweaks later, if need be, and are 120/120 and 100/130.

Assuming we don't scrap these changes, the next update will probably focus on the CO units themselves and possibly shuffling them around if the current loadouts don't work. Other than that, that should be it as far as adding things go unless we figure out how to modify capture rates. Nothing Crap Wars crazy though, just a high rank infantry with improved capture.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:49 am 
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Equal or greater than: >=

or =>, can't remember anyway it's one or the other.

Increased captures for shock infantry was in the latest unreleased branch and it wasn't complicated to do but I would have to check the source, which I can't be bothered to do now.

EDIT: Actually I decided to dump the source to rapidshare: http://rapidshare.com/files/264054434/cwsource.rar.html

Includes 1.5x infantry, kamikaze tanks and probably other things I don't remember anymore. Have fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:19 am 
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Hmm, is this the right source? Version reads 090516 and the CO units also appear to be unchanged. Skyfox has a different name too.

I in my incompetence have just realized that the notation I needed for the correct prestige costs is a few lines below them, denoting unit costs.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:32 am 
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What do you mean with CO units being unchanged? Did you test them in the game? If the Skyfox is called Libelulla it should be the latest source. Obviously it wouldn't include any of the things Kiwi made, since those were for his own version of the game.

The changes you should be looking for:

Landwolf has detonate ability (like a black bomb)
Shock Infantry has 1.5x capture
Einhorn has capture ability too I think
Charging is changed so that every successive apex unit costs 50% more than the last one.

These were the things I managed to add I believe before I got tired of the whole thing.

Although this double CO units idea intrigues me, if developed further it could be interesting...

I was thinking of a system where you'd have two variables: the old Prestige, which is gained by damaging enemy units and is measured in hit points... and "Revenge" which charges when your units are damaged, and is measured in funds.

This would preserve the Dor-like effect of the old prestige charging that punishes an opponent who spams cheap units and you would also gain more revenge when your pricey units get damaged than when you sacrifice a bunch of infantry.

Each CO would have have two special units; The Prestige unit and the Revenge unit, deployed by emptying their respective meter. It would probably be best if deploying a Prestige unit also burns some amount of Revenge and vice versa so that the player would be forced to make a choice instead of just deploying both units when they get them charged.

Although I doubted the new ranks first, I think they would be nice for adding flavour to "clone" units. Like, if Peter's Landwolf was Apex and Smitan's equivalent was a Prototype with slightly different stats. And one of the clones could be Prestige based and the other Revenge based.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:06 am 
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guys what is a Libellula?

it's just that

it sounds like a female body part


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:46 am 
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Dammit, kiwi.

I'm led to believe it's a type of dragonfly.

I was looking in BattleScreen for the changes. Having not found them, I remembered the modding topic and located the correct files.

These are the things set to appear in the next update. I've tested all of them on the test map except for granting Resupply and Reinforce, but those should be easy enough to take care of. I was wondering if you were strongly against any of them or really wanted to implement something.

COs:

Leone: 800/800, Einhorn/Calypso
Mary: 600/800, Shock Infantry/Dragoon
Mina: 800/800, Skyfox/Einhorn
Peter: 1000/600, Landwolf/Shock Infantry
Smitan: 1000/1000, Braithwaite/Landwolf
Graves: 600/800, Black Ops/Skyfox
Ember: 800/600, Calypso/Gryphon
Sophie: 800/1000, Dragoon/Braithwaite
Sabaki: 600/600, Chevalier/Black Ops
Tempest: 1000/600, Gryphon/Chevalier


By prestige costs, the CO loadouts are as follows:

600/600: Sabaki
600/800: Mary, Graves
800/800: Leone, Mina
800/1000: Sophie, Ember
600/1000: Peter, Tempest
1000/1000: Smitan

Neat.

At the moment, I don't think increasing successive prestige costs is necessary if the units aren't free. At least, I'd like to get more testing before moving on to things like that or the Revenge gauge. I'm wary of the latter because, even with the penalty to Prestige, it's reactionary like the old games.

I like the HP charge on attack since it's entirely up to the attacker to make the call. You could rush an opening to build up prestige faster but have to consider if the loss of material during the inevitable counter (and building the opponent's prestige) is worth it, or if you'd rather hold off to keep units on the field longer and retain a positional advantage at the cost of delaying your CO unit. Revenge would be a complement to Prestige; it'll probably be harder to tweak for balance than monetary costs.

Units:
Code:
(0) 100/100 :  1000 Chevalier (infantry)
(1) 110/100 :  7000 Calypso (anti-tank)
(2) 120/100 :  8000 Dragoon (tank)
(3) 130/100 :  1000 Shock Infantry (hvy inf.)
(4) 130/130 :  5000 Einhorn (IFV)
(5) 115/90  :  9000 Landwolf (hvy tank)
(6) 100/80  : 10000 Braithwaite (artillery)
(7) 110/110 :  1000 Black Ops (spec ops)
(8) 120/120 :  7000 Skyfox (gunship)
(9)  80/140 : 18000 Gryphon (bomber)

(Number) is the rank. Due to the way capture modding works, all CO units are locked in at their rank; ranks 0-3 are technically 10-13. In hindsight, this just means they each get their own stats which can be tweaked independent of anything else, although I rather like the 10 COs to 10 ranks motif.

Changes not listed in the chart:

Shock Inf.: x2 capture
Skyfox: name change to Libellula, Ace Gunship
Landwolf: explodes at radius of 2 for 3 damage
Landwolf: name change to Fenrir, Nuclear Siege Tank
Braithwaite: 3 ammo
Black Ops: x1.5 capture, Resupply
Calypso: 8 move
Dragoon: 6 move
Chevalier: x20 capture, Reinforce
Gryphon: 5 move, 1~3 range, carry 1 ground unit


If I haven't been seeing things, Black Ops do have 2 ammo but are built with 1. As long as the base doesn't fail to resupply or you have some convoys handy, it shouldn't be a problem.

As a reminder to myself, I need to include the source code.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:06 pm 
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I'm just saying dragonfly wasn't one of the first things I thought of

guess we can't rename Landwolf to something decidedly not a wolf and call the super copter Airwolf?


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:33 pm 
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One other thing is Reinforce receiving a boost to 2 HP.

On a related note, all repairs to CO units abide by their production costs. Not sure about when you join a CO unit with its normal counterpart though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:13 am 
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BRAITHWAITE STILL GOOD TO GO if it can get to the frontline before the battle ends

I propose Braithwaite move 3 because being stopped dead by two forests sucks

also why are we waiting


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:24 am 
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We're waiting because I thought it'd be better to ask beforehand.

In other news: Narts, how would you feel if AHC was used to conduct a tournament?

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:56 pm 
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Like I said before, I'm all right with anything and everything. I'm not involved with this project anymore.

If I ever start caring again, I will probably revert half or more of your changes and do something completely different. But that's only if.

Wait, what was that about a tournament?


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Winner of the CW Best of Show gets a tournament. There was a vote and everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:25 am 
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Guess what... I changed my mind again!

When you guys are done raping the game give the source to me and I'll tinker it with a bit before making the official release.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:12 am 
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BACK IN ACTION

YEAAHH

just don't change your mind again so soon


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:14 am 
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Well, so much for granting Resupply. I changed BattleScreen, ContextMenu, and the unit files themselves, and it didn't work.

Jar and source: http://rapidshare.com/files/265207568/a ... 9.zip.html
Update details: viewtopic.php?p=213136#p213136

Since we're our own little offshoot now, all the changes discussed went through, except as noted above and below:

Einhorn: 7000
Fenrir: 14000
Braithwaite: 4 move
Hvy Tanks: 12000

Einhorn is basically the most flexible CO unit. It has the best stats and most features, and while it's not the most powerful it's easily worth more than a regular IFV, which are fairly useful in their own right.

The big tanks are a little unappealing at twice a normal tank; at 12000, they're worth two artilleries, which is basically what you need to take one down, although rockets, gunships, and even normal hvy infantry deal a notable amount of damage to them. Maybe this is a good idea, maybe not.

Just because Braithwaite can move now doesn't mean it should. Being closer to the front makes it more susceptible to ops attacks, as kiwi learned quickly enough, and with 80 defense they'll take fair damage from anything.

I was going to change naval units but figured you'd just revert them, and I wasn't sure what to change exactly aside from giving landers resupply. But it's less work for both of us so no harm done.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:53 pm 
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little something extra: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4103/terraincw.gif
put in place of same file in terrain image folder to fix ahc's crooked shoals

what, it was bugging me


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:38 am 
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This is a minor update but I wanted to check upload access.

ahc 12.08.09

Hvy Infantry: 3000
Fenrir: 130/80, 4 damage 2 radius explosion
Dragoon: 7000
Gryphon: 80/130

Hvy infantry are defensive powerhouses, even without CO zones. This is mainly because IFVs are also powerhouses in their own right, being the bane of regular infantry, spec ops, and sometimes anti-airs, and having a couple IFVs mixed with hvy infantry isn't uncommon. We can always revert if this turns out too costly, but then I'm liable to apply 7000 anti-airs. Actually, 7000 anti-airs might appear anyway.

Dragoons are on the weaker end of CO unit strength. It hits harder than a regular tank and has better movement type but has the same vulnerabilities in addition to no terrain defense or property repairs, so I don't think any extra cost is needed when it's a hefty 800pr, especially since the COs that get it also have Shock Infantry and Braithwaite.

Fenrir and Gryphon have minor tweaks. Well, I shouldn't say minor. The tank gets a shift and the bomber gets a nerf. Even at 90 defense, there's really no question that the GLORY DEVICE will go off. The latter might go as low as 120 defense next time.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:39 am 
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If you want to develop your version independently it might be better to call it something else to avoid confusion. Like Ad Hoc Xreem. There's maybe a 20% chance I'll be bothered to add those changes to the official branch.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Hoc Commander
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:25 am 
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Okay. I'll request a topic split as well.

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:54 am 
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http://rapidshare.com/files/270705612/a ... 9.zip.html

I would use the code repository but this is a tiny update.

Shock Infantry 3000
Chevalier 3000

Imbalance is to be expected, but 1000 cost Shock Infantry tend to lead towards more surprise upsets than any other unit, even their instant-capturing counterparts, probably because of the massive 130% attack and heavy infantry's inherent usefulness. I suppose, also, the urgency they invoke is understated because they're not as flashy as other units, but they're great at what they do.

Anything can halt Chevaliers well enough but their low cost made escorting them too easy.

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:32 pm 
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this place has a distinct lack of pics

FOR GREAT JUSTICE
Image
this is from 08.08.09 back when heavy were 2500
and dragoons sucked
Image
go ahead, guess how many of those are shock infantry

THEN things got all noir and shit in 12.08.09
Image

Image
ASDGASFGADP WHY MUST YOU RESIST

and this is the future NOW or whatever
Image
brought this map out of THE CAVE for lulz

we never finished this battle cause the map has no contest cities/bases too close/safe HQs/etc.
oh sure with shock and knight infantry there's an epic tug of war but yeah


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:09 am 
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http://rapidshare.com/files/274338111/a ... 9.zip.html

Anti-Air 7000
Anti-Tank 9000

Anti-tanks deal 100% damage to a number of units, mostly the armors at and under their cost. I didn't find that out until I bothered attacking things with them though; their cost, high, and range, limited. At 10000 they typically appear only when hvy tanks do, but we can't just call them Anti-Hvy-Tanks considering they're not exceptional at it. But, unlike IFVs and anti-airs, they lose much more when pit against hvy infantry.

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:14 pm 
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http://customwars.googlecode.com/files/ ... .10.09.zip

Missile: 12000
Corvette 12000, 3 ammo
Destroyer 14000, transport movement
Cruiser 16000
Submarine 18000

Braithwaite 8000
Gryphon move 6, range 1~3

Braithwaite has been nerfed enough, I don't think it needs to cost so much.

Destroyers being able to move on shoals is quirky. Not sure what to think of it yet, but it stays for now as a little experiment. Corvettes also had it but it was a bit much.

Speaking of which, corvettes' damage versus other ships has been reduced by 10 as well, putting it at 45, 35 for battleships. In the two games we tried them, they can be handy early on, but going right for a battleship is probably better. 7 range battleships are possibly the most ridiculous things in any game but, for a reason called kiwi, I can't part with them.

That said, I'd like to avoid touching the damage chart whenever possible. Narts did a good job with this one and kiwi did a horrible job with the other one, so yeah.

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:14 pm 
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I, um, made an oversight with the last release. I must have hit Discard instead of Save when I editted BattleScreen. Get the fix here. I included the source as well for those interested.

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:58 am 
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I'm beginning to lean towards the idea that it might be best, after all, to unite our efforts rather than working on separate projects. I wasn't really doing much with the main AHC so I would propose making Unplugged the "official" branch, and thus we wouldn't need the Unplugged title - it would just be AHC. I would let you guys have mostly free hands with the balancing aspects, but I'd like to reserve the right to veto anything I consider completely bonkers, and I might occasionally shoulder in a weird idea or two just for the kicks. But mostly I'd focus on non-gameplay stuff, like getting some graphics done maybe for a change, hmm and I think I might shuffle around some unit names in near future, it would be nice to have unique names for all the apex units at least.

Also, CT has contacted me and hinted he might be willing contribute to the AHC programming effort in near future in some measure, hopefully consistently enough to be helpful.

I'm thinking of creating a separate Google Code account for AHC, the version control would save a lot of hassle when there are several programmers working on the same code base.


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:30 am 
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lol I only handle testing and mapping for AHC, DP does the modding

get ready for arguments that don't go anywhere and which can only be resolved through mortal combat


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Actually never mind... There's not that much in Unplugged I want to integrate into AHC and the changes I want to do are so extreme they're going to blow all your intricate balancings out of the window, there's no point trying to cram it all into one mod.


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:34 pm 
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what's up in this topic

Out of curiosity, what is AHC? Is it Advance Wars, but instead of CO Powers you deploy units?

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:47 pm 
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Ad Hoc Commander is a mod that offers - yes - a variant, AW-like game, where the main difference is that the commanders don't have powers, but instead can deploy special units that can do stuff that normal units can't. Or something. I think there's actually a marketing-blurbish explanation on the main www cw page if you bother to navigate there. What's happening in this topic is that DP is flying and making a mod called AHW Plugged where things get even crazier.

So

sup


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:55 am 
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I'd say things got boring and tedious but that's just me


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:38 pm 
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It looks very cool and the idea is certainly novel. Indeed! AW-ish, considering units have been shuffled around. I really like the idea. Gaining prestige to unlock units that you can buy? AWESOME. Obviously, this is only the first step. Next step is SUPER PRESTIGE UNIT (SPU) that you unlock when you deal or take a certain amount of HP damage, with special thematic abilities like "cavalier movement" and "100% attack salvage". Perhaps a TAG PRESTIGE UNIT (TPU) where you select two COs instead of one, allowing you to combine the best attributes of both SPU while also throwing all semblance of balance out the window!

In any case, I was dropping by because I wanted to grab the source code of the last extant version of CW. I'm planning on writing my own TBS (aren't we all) and was going to review CW for what we did right (many things, actually) and what we did wrong (god damn voting booth).

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:30 am 
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The shuffling-around of units part went pretty fine but things started going awry when I introduced the prestige units, which is part of the reason why I got frustrated with the project and gave up. I wonder if I should just go back to the power based system I had previously and try to innovate the game in some other way.

What do you guys think of the following ideas:

-Letting all land units capture properties at full rate.

-Upkeep. You have to pay a certain sum of money (say, around 100-200) for every unit you have fielded, every turn. A punishment for players who rely on spamming cheap units, also would likely act as an anti-slippery slope agent of sorts.

-Allowing units to move immediately after unloading from transports. Let them do anything, including attacking, or loading onto another transport and unloading again (Pony Express). Spec ops would probably have to be trashed and hvy inf nerfed in some way to prevent tanks from becoming obsolete.

-Allowing units to be deployed anywhere on the map. Yes, anywhere. It may sound crazy especially if you haven't played Go or Shogi but probably is less so than you think. Remember that if you deploy a hvy inf on top of the enemy HQ they can just immediately deploy an AA next to it. (or I could always just ditch HQ's) There would probably have to be some cap to how many you can deploy at a single turn though. The amount of factories you control, for example. Or would heavy upkeep costs and low enough income be enough to keep spammage from becoming ridiculous? Hmm.

-Command points? Valkyria Chronicles has this system where you're given a certain amount at the beginning of every turn and then every action you perform, with any unit, costs one or more CP. It's sort of like movement points for the entire army or something. The wacky thing here is that there's nothing preventing you from using all the CP on just ONE unit, moving it again and again and again... of course something would have to be done to prevent long distance captures, and the repeated moving of one unit tempered by increasing the cost of every subsequent action by 1 CP. Repeated attacks are not a problem because of counterattack damage that reduces effectiveness of this tactic, except in extreme cases like heavy tanks mowing down infantry but that only makes sense. CP could also be used differentiate CO's, one could have weak powers but more CP, and there might be ways to increase your turnly CP quota, like controlling communication towers for example.

-Letting air units fly over enemies?

-bring back CO zones! A no-brainer actually. If I go back to the CO powers I'm almost certainly going to steal the zone code from CW:BD. I wonder if there would be some way to innovate with this. Tie it to the command points somehow? Units inside zone can move without expending CP? (probably bad idea)


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:42 am 
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I liked ACTION loading, but if you still want tanks and other middle units around just nerf mech damage
spec ops might have to lose a move but get mech typing I dunno

land captures probably go well with ACTION loading for reasons you can come up with

an other idea for the deploy anywheres and even the above: make HQs' cap points higher

the downside to deploy anywheres is
I can spend a turn blowing my 20k income on a wall of infantry
and the next turn
and the next turn
you'll need limiting factors
also FTA oh noes

command points sound cool but how the hell are you going to decide what they should be
each base gives X cp? HQs add their own cp?
be careful not to make it "AW but now you can't move so much"

I looked at the DoR source and while you can probably fix it just know that it isn't working right now
zones don't move properly, zone bonuses are messed up and even apply to the enemy, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:08 am 
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I was thinking of scrapping HQ's altogether, I never liked them anyway. It always seemed to me that in maps where they're relevant, the whole game revolves around them (HQ rush), and when they're not... well they're not.

In VC the CP's came from different sources. I think your main mofo (who lost you the game when he died so he was always with you) gave you 3 CP. Then you got 1 CP for every sub-mofo on the field and these guys could die (temporarily, before you revived them). You could save leftover CP for use on later turns, but I don't think I'd like that in my game.

In AHC I think the main source should be your CO (or HQ. or the CO in the HQ. Or whatever). He gives you around 5 or 6 by default (possibly varies depending on the character) Cities and factories shouldn't give anything, but a comm tower would be worth... around 1-3? Then 1 CP for every vehicle you have fielded, but not infantry (just to piss them off further as if the other changes aren't enough)

Some units like carriers might give you more. But this game has no carriers! Well... not YET. Maybe some possibilities for new units. AWACS planes, signal units, whatnot.

SOO the amount of CP you have would scale somewhat with the size of your army, but cleverly so that massively oversized armies would suffer inefficiency. In ideal world of course. As with any radical idea there's of course the possibility of a major fuckup. But we don't care right?!

I can probably fix zones, and in any case I don't care if they don't work exactly like in DoR, since this is not DoR.


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:27 am 
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At the moment I feel that

These ideas are getting in almost certainly:

Scrap apex units, bring back powers
Steal zones from dor
Action unload
All units capture

I'm unsure about these (I'll probably try them if I find them easy enough to implement):

Air units crossing enemies
Upkeep

These are probably never going to happen (but they're still fun to think about):

Command points
Omni-deployment

If I'm going to implement either of these, I'm going to implement them both. The more I think about it, the more certain I am that CP is necessary for tempering OD. If moving a unit and performing an action costs 1CP and deploying a unit on a non-factory square takes, say 3CP, then deploying a huge cluster of infantry becomes less attractive, since you would be depriving yourself the ability to DO anything with your units that turn and enemy tanks would just be dancing over you the next turn. CP would BTW also open the possibility for a subtle way to deal with FTA: give some extra CP for the 2nd player on his first turn.

Now would be a good time to pitch your own ideas if any. I'm listening!

(woot hijacked ur topic)


Last edited by Narts on Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:34 am 
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Also I'm going to rename the mod to MOUSTACHE-KRIEG. Completely without Artea's permission or consent of course.


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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:29 am 
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I am 100% behind the idea of all-capture, but full rate probably won't cut it. Perhaps either a hard-coded rate or a rate based on movement? Giving infantry the fastest capture rate in the game gives them incentive to be produced, while also making the player manage the fact that they're incredibly fragile. I would suggest that low HP units (recon-equivalents) have 8x HP capture per turn, while heavier units (tanks, etc.) become worse and worse at capturing, from 7x (barely 3 turns) to 6x. Certain units would have just terrible terrible capture aptitudes -- rockets would probably have 3x or so.

One thing that always irritated me about AW was that you couldn't shuffle units onto the city -- perhaps allowing city capture counts to reset only if the turn ends and a allied unit is not on top of it as a capstone idea.

I don't really feel strongly about upkeep either way. I would say yes, just because I'm also looking at an upkeep system to keep armies slim, though balancing it is another thing. Would anything happen if upkeep reduces funds to zero? What happens if you entrench, save up, then build more units than you can sustain? That's probably a case that's rare enough to be an edge case, but it's worth noting. No farms please :V

I'm not sure about transport instant move. I don't know the state of units in ADW, but this would be a great way to instantly add +6 to the movement range of one infantry unit. Like you said, hard infantry would have to be demoted, making it balanced around APC + Heavy Infantry rather than Heavy Infantry themselves, which doesn't seem great. Also, on naval maps the troops being unloaded from the lander will have first strike, rather than the troops defending the shore, which doesn't seem right.

I liked the other idea you had waaay back when you envisioned the COZone as a blanket area rather than just a zone around the CO. If you do alter COZones, it's fairly easy to change how they work -- I think InCOZone() in CO.java command allows you to write custom detection code rather than the base "is within range".

Theory crafting is the best crafting. :V

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 Post subject: Re: AHC Unplugged
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:02 am 
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kiwi wrote:
I'd say things got boring and tedious but that's just me

Why? Is it because you can't just pick Smitan and win automatically anymore?

I don't have much to add at the moment other than hey, it's Captain Vimes. I'm not sure another repository is needed unless you wanted to go crazy with uploading. The plus side of all these mods branching out from one overarching thing is that, while they go their separate ways, they don't actually stray too far apart from one another, and the makers can collaborate and discuss, exchange, and test ideas.

On capturing, you might make it such that infantry can capture in a single turn at full HP, making them a lucrative but fragile asset and speeding up the capture phase in the process. You probably won't want vehicles to capture too slowly by comparison though.

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