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 Post subject: CO Specific AI Index
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:30 am 
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This thread will index all AI threads in this section that are dedicated toward specific strategies for CO's. Anyone may start and/or respond an CO specific AI thread, but please only one thread per a CO.

Topics can contain anything from unit distribution to strategies vs specific CO's (like what to do if you're Hawke against Sasha).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:55 am 
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Is anyone going to write any strategy of any kind for any CO?!!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:27 am 
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I suppose soon enough I'll write strategies for my CCOs... not now, though. Need to clean room before mom explodes.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:35 am 
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I would just KISS and keep the strategies basic, like Kindle focuses on cities, Grit builds indirects a lot, etc. No need for complex unique strategies for each CO. But that's just me.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:43 am 
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Quick question: Will the campaign creators be able to request custom AI routines for particular missions?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:47 am 
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On my two cents: They should. Like, on a "Protect this unit" mission, the AI should go for that unit at all costs.

Just my thoughts though.

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Pointless DoR/DC CO concepts. They frighten those of you who actually know what you're talking about.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:11 pm 
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I'm still learning AI. Alot of people in CS have yet to start it in my year :? .

And besides, the AI needs PRIOITIES. What to build, when, and where.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:16 pm 
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What: units
When: end of turn
Where: bases, ports, airports




seriously thought I'll try to write something useful on this tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:21 pm 
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Location: I'd put something clever here, but you'd expect that
I think one of DS AI's faults is it's a wee bit obsessed with air units. I mean, maybe it's just me, but I've seen it build fighters for the sake of having them out.

I guess that's a good idea occasionally, but it's kind of dumb usually. To me, anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:27 am 
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OK, I just wrote a tiny start of an outline for a General A.I. now (because I couldn't find one on the forums), as CO specific A.I. should just be variations of a default A.I. I think. If this is on the right track of what is needed for an A.I. and what you're asking for, than say so and I can expand it and then define changes unique for each CO. I would just ask for a link to the current stats of the COs for the the CW balance mode or whatever it's called.


General A.I.

On the first turn, all bases should be used to build infantry.
- Exception for APCs: If he (the A.I.) owns at least two bases and an income of 6k or higher, he should build an APC on the base closest to prime capturing spots. If there are neutral bases on the map, it builds the APC on the base closest to a neutral base. Without neutral bases, generally it should build the APC on the base farthest from the HQ but in the direction of the enemy HQ.
-Exception for Ports: if he starts with a Port, at least one base owned within 3 spaces of a Port or shoals near to the Port, and there are other islands or neutral ports in the map, and if he has an income of 9k or higher at the start, he will build a Black Boat. If he has more than one Port, he will build the Black Boat at the port closest to the bases. Should the map have any neutral bases on the same landmass with the bases he starts with, or if the Black Boat would not be able to reach disembark anywhere close to where infantry could capture (so no neutral buildings with 4 spaces of shoals that could be reached), he builds an APC instead.
- Exception for Airports: If he owns at least one airport and starts with 6k income or more, he will build a T. Copter and no APCs on the first turn. If there is more than one airport, the A.I. will build it following the same priority as choosing where it builds APCs. If he owns a Port and an Airport and at least 9k, he builds a T. Copter unless there are more ports on the map then airports, in which case he builds a Black Boat (a poor way to judge if a map is more naval then aerial but I don’t know how else to do it right now).
- Exception for many bases and high income: If he has 5 or more bases, doesn't build any of the transport units mentioned previously, and has enough money, he buys a different unit. The priority for this unit, depending on available income and context, is: Recon (for lots of roads, as outlined below), Md. Tank, Tank, Artillery, Recon (few roads, but some). Income is counted after buying the infantry necessary, and this unit is built on a base that is not within 3 spaces of a neutral property if possible, on a base closest to the enemy HQ otherwise.

On the second turn, if he just built infantry, he moves the infantry towards neutral cities if there are some.
- If he has an APC/T.Copter and there is another infantry behind it but within loading range, it would load and move towards a neutral base if possible, or a far neutral city otherwise (one within the 6 movement of the APC/Copter’s movement range or less, allowing it to unload the infantry in range of a city, the farther the better, taking any mountains or rivers in the way in consideration of the APC and infantry’s movement). If no infantry can be loaded this turn, the APC moves 3 spaces from where it was built, and the A.I. will build an infantry there at the end of the turn to load it.
- For Black Boats, it loads infantry immediately if in range, letting the Black Boat move towards its intended destination (an island or a neutral port, priority to an island with a neutral port, than an island, then a port), other wise it moves in position to get close to a base so infantry can be loaded on it later.
Building: All bases are used to build infantry
- Exception for APC/Copter: If he didn’t have 6k on the first turn, but has 5k income or more on the second turn, he builds an APC/T.Copter, following the same rules as outlined before. As outlined before, if he built an APC/Copter first turn but hasn’t loaded it, it builds an infantry on the same base it built the transport to load it next turn.
- Exception for Recons: If the map has lots of roads so that a recon could reach the opponent’s infantry in 2 turns within being built, and if he has at least 2 bases and 5k income, it builds a Recon on the base closest to the capturing infantry of the enemy.
- Exception for Tanks/B.Copters: If the opponent has already built a Recon, and the A.I. has 2 bases/1 and an airport, and he has 8k/10k, he builds a Tank/B.Copter to stop the recon and harass opposing capturing infantry. It favors the B.Copter if available, unless the opponent already has an AA gun/Missiles unit. If he can’t afford either but can buy a Recon, he goes for that instead.
- Exception for High Income: If he has at least 17k and 2 bases, he builds a Md. Tank on the base closest to the enemy. This has less priority than an APC/Copter, Recon and B.Copter when applicable, but more than the Tank.


Last edited by Heidern on Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:46 am 
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Woah, that was quite impressive, and extensive.

Well done.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:40 am 
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For what it's worth, I have noticed a pattern with Oozium, that there is some formula of money(price of units)/distance. I'm pretty sure they'll go for an infantry right next to them, then an MD tank one space away. I'm pretty sure that there is a somewhat similar system for other units. Will do testing on this.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:48 am 
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I don't think the AI should build an APC right away unless there aren't any neutral properties directly in range of the infantry intended to go into the APC. Also, if the AI can build over a set # of infantry at start (5, say) and still have money for different units, it should build them.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:55 am 
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ChessRules wrote:
I don't think the AI should build an APC right away unless there aren't any neutral properties directly in range of the infantry intended to go into the APC.

What if that infantry would be built on turn 2? Should it build the APC in anticipation of that?

ChessRules wrote:
Also, if the AI can build over a set # of infantry at start (5, say) and still have money for different units, it should build them.

Build what? I'll add something for now but I'm not sure what you have in mind.

EDIT: Feel free to add or correct it, it's far from perfect, but again I don't even know if this is what is needed so it might be useless, don't spend too much time on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:27 am 
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Heidern wrote:
ChessRules wrote:
I don't think the AI should build an APC right away unless there aren't any neutral properties directly in range of the infantry intended to go into the APC.

What if that infantry would be built on turn 2? Should it build the APC in anticipation of that?

ChessRules wrote:
Also, if the AI can build over a set # of infantry at start (5, say) and still have money for different units, it should build them.

Build what? I'll add something for now but I'm not sure what you have in mind.

EDIT: Feel free to add or correct it, it's far from perfect, but again I don't even know if this is what is needed so it might be useless, don't spend too much time on it.

1. If the APC could be moved to a better position than the base it starts on, then yes; at that point it might be best if the base was to the back lines. And as for the " in direction of enemy HQ" thing, what if there's no HQ? Probably better to use the direction of:
a) Enemy properties, and
b) Neutral properties
Bases would probably count more than cities.

2. No idea, really. Probably a recon to harass enemy capturing. Transports would obviously take priority, though... it all depends on the situation.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:14 am 
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I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by "moved to a better position than the base it starts on". If you can be a bit more specific I'll just copy/paste it into the post.

This is the General A.I., as in the default A.I. That is why an HQ is used, as it is a simple way to figure out the general direction to build in, and there has to be one. Unless CW changed to rule and said there doesn't haven't to be HQs anymore, but I haven't heard about that. I'm gonna try thinking of an alternative to determine where to build/send the APC.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:02 am 
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I think we should at least outline a basic building order, and the AI then deviates from that based on what you build. For example

5 infantries
artillery
tank
recon
AA
tank
save up
rockets

etc.

And say, if you build more than 5 infantry by the second day, it builds an AA instead of an artillery. And if you save up and save up then the AI will build extra artillery. And so on. But if you just build normal units and do not provoke the AI it stays with a certain build order, or at least, for a certain CO.


That's really oversimplifying it, as there are infinite things to consider when making a building order. But we should at least have a standard structure, then go into the little details to react to what you do and what terrain is around it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:01 am 
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Just bringing this to our attention. I dunno if anyone's working on AI? Resej? ;_; Just campaigns are moving along and the sooner we start the better chance we'll have of having it up and running sooner. I think implementing that awesome little guide for the start of a match that Heidern wrote would be the best place to start.

I don't know how hard it is to implement AI but actually deciding which moves to do should be quite straight forward (but maybe time consuming later on in a match) if all it is is a bunch of if statments. Maybe getting the AI to actually execute its moves might be a bit harder though. I'm just speculating.

Though it would be nice if we could try and get the ball rolling here =3

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:06 pm 
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Unless you don't have much plans or expectations for the AI, a "chain of if statements" is not the way to go unless you plan to keep the AI very small and simple, and even then, it's going to get messy without some structure in place.

At a bare minimum, the AI should use a simple decision tree and some heuristics (rules of thumb) to decide what to do, so at a minimum, it will make reasonable moves, will attack you, will run away when hurt, will capture cities within range, etc. This is AI at the unit-level, and you also need AI at the army level to choose which unit to take action with and another simple AI to decide what units to deploy. If that's all you're after, then that's all you need. If you are after something more sophisticated, you will need a more thought out plan and will need to dip further into some of academic AI to achieve it.

For example, more advanced AI's will formulate both high level and low level strategies to carry out, will assemble units into formations, will possibly think ahead and outdo the opponent, etc. These are all features that will make the AI significantly smarter (and possibly superior to the AW AI) but will also take a more sophisticated design to carry out.

AWDS has very vague system of defining AI's using the words "Strike", "Assault" and whatnot. These actually correspond to values that are present in the AI's logic that bend it towards a certain goal. In academia, we call it fuzzy logic. The best way to describe this is to say that instead of binary values where something is either 0 or 1, it can be between. For example, the AI could decide to be 0.3 offensive and 0.7 defensive, and based on that, would make its decisions given those values rather than merely 0 and 1.

Then you come to a nasty topic, fog of war AI, which can get very messy if you want to do it "fairly" and yet, accurately. You could cheap out and let the computer play "Terminator" and have it know where you are, and the earlier AW games did this, or you could have it choose randomly, and that might be a good enough approximation for your needs. Or if you really wanted it to be good, you'd have to let it choose based on what it knew and to weigh the consequences of each possible move based on what it's seen, just like a real human player.

So you see, there's quite a bit to consider depending on what you're after. I'm designing the AI for JTactics right now, so while FE is a different beast altogether (much more complex in some respects because of the stats and the many more possible moves, less complex because there's no unit deployment/building), both games are turn-based strategy and share the same AI concepts, and both draw upon ideas used in real-time strategy game AI actually.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:50 am 
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AI idea: for smarter COs like sonja, make them deploy different types of units or units good for the situation they are in. ex. if there are alot of air units, have them deploy missles and Anti airs.
for average COs, im not sure what to do.
for stupid CO's like flak, who only like crushing things, make them deploy mostly one type of unit, and no strategy. just like a search and destroy.
have eagle favor air units, and drake favor sea units. its really not complicated lke this, but when it gets down to programming, i feal your pain retsej. i did some programming before i became a spriter, and man is it HARD.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:49 am 
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>_>

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:31 am 
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yes...we'll make any AI playing flak just build a tank...one stealth and a load of APCs and you lose >_>

not to mention, em, the capture aspect?

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