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 Post subject: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2 (Poll Closed)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:22 pm 
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I see five feasible routes for this project to take. We are going to vote between these five plans.

Plan A: Custom Wars 2 should be built on the basement provided by the project known as Ad Hoc Wars. (essentially a fork of AW1. See: http://www.customwars.com/wiki/index.ph ... n_document)

Plan B: Custom Wars 2 should be based on the old Custom Wars. We basically continue from where we left off when the project “died” in early 2008.

Plan C: Custom Wars 2 should be based on the same premises as CW1 (i.e. More balanced AW:DS with custom content), but started from a clean slate. (abandon all the old custom stuff from 2008 and earlier)

Plan D: Custom Wars 2 should be based on AW:DoR.

Plan E: Custom Wars 2 should be built from scratch, not based on any existing game design. We go through every basic mechanic in the game and decide individually for each separate part how they are going to work.

How the poll is going to work: Anyone who cares enough to post has a vote. Indicate clearly which one of the five options you prefer. I will conclude the poll on March the 1st. I will then create another poll where we vote between the two most popular routes of action. The one that wins the poll will become the basis for the CW2 project.

Also, YES – I am perfectly aware of the limitations and problems of a democratic method of decision. After all I was one of the most belligerent opponents of the old voting booth system. However I have spent time thinking and I've realised there is a lot going for this approach.

-People will have a feeling of having an effect to the project, even if all of their personal ideas are not getting into the game.
-Creates a sense of community and gives people a reason to come to the forum.
-Does not depend too much on one or few individuals who might disappear or get disinterested at any time.
-Clear cut decisions versus the uncertainty and confusion in a system without any kind of leadership.

The strongest argument against voting was that it supposedly placed a huge stress on the programmers, which was indeed true due to the way how CW1 was organised. However, does this apply anymore? We now have a strong plan to separate the engine from game content. Programmers will essentially put the mechanics they want into the game, leaving game creators (modders) to worry about tweaking the numbers. We no longer need to bother the programmers with every minor balance tweak, and we can limit the power of the voting booth to only concern issues that don't need extra programming. Whammo – programmers don't need to hate the booth anymore.

Another argument was that a strong designer/supreme dictator/wonderchild would likely create a more solid and balanced game than a huge mob of people with conflicting opinions and ideas ever could. While essentially true, this argument however doesn't have teeth because this messianic superman has spectacularly failed to appear during the one entire year we have basically done nothing but waited for him. Even if he comes around after we have set up the democratic system, he can create his game as a separate mod that can exist alongside with CW2. So eh. We might as well start flipping those coins to pass time. Let fate decide what CW2 will be like.

Start voting, peons.


Last edited by Narts on Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:41 pm 
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As you mentioned, Game development is not a democracy! We need to elect a Leader.

Plan E is my vote, There are a couple of new developers including myself starting from scratch would be easier. We can still use/modify old components and add them.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:54 pm 
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To elect a leader we would have to first find someone actually willing to be leader. At this point a leader would be pretty much whoever wants to lead. A pretty good justification, I think, to either start voting on crap or abandon the project since no one cares.

What would you like to see happen?


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:32 am 
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chom_chom said we should come with our own content that might look like aw, but is not equal to it.
We all agreed on that?
So that aw like game -> Ad Hoc Wars
Further there was a 'move bug' in aw1 solved in later versions, it would be silly not to use the improved move.
I'm talking about only move to destination when an action has been chosen.

i vote for Plan A


Last edited by stef569 on Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:54 am 
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Just to clarify, this is about gameplay, not story/graphics, not the engine.

Regardless of which gameplay direction we take, we would have to make our original graphics and the engine is a separate entity that does not concern this vote. Whatever bugs there might in whatever version of the CW engine are thus irrelevant.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:10 am 
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Actually, disregard the original post. We're going with plan A. There is no democracy. Dismissed.

Lock this thread please.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2 (Poll Closed)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:54 am 
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Interesting development.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2 (Poll Closed)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:28 am 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Hey Narts,
With the destruction of all my progress on Ad-Hoc Wars I am permantly giving up programming. It has been over 5 years I been with this project, from when it was a wet dream on a different forum, to the current dead forums. I know I have not always been co-operative with you, especially when I was jealous of your art when you first came, but I do hope that you remember me in a better light than my recent actions. I have spent a long time making sprites, making music, making fan art, throwing ideas around, five years of free time that I could have used better, five years of my life with nothing to show for it other than a burnt hardrive with an A.I. I can't salvage from said burnt hardrive. I will miss you and I do thank you for the time you have spent helping us on the design team, a job that from personal experience does not get any thank yous and is fully scrutinized. I especially love what you did with leone, and maude, and klaire, and i will treasure the art work for ever. With sadness I say goodbye and thanks for being my artistic friend. I wish you guys the best luck with this game, I am not coming back, and if I manage ever to get over the loss of my hardrive and waste of life, I might come back but not anywhere in the next 2 years.
If you guys ever need to bounce ideas or ask questions about old custom wars let me know, I will be willing to talk on msn or whatever just email me and let me know you want to be added to my msn. I will not make time for you guys like i used to do, but rather if I happen to have an afternoon or a moment where there is absolutly nothing to do I may from time to time read your emails/questions.

master-artisan@hotmail.com
~regard, Artea-Destin
Rip 2002-2009: burnt out hardrive


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2 (Poll Closed)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Sorry to hear that, Destin...

I want to thank you for holding out those 7 years and devoting your time to this site even though it was at its lowest point. I can relate to losing all of your work in one sitting. It happened to me the first time I started programming games. All the work that I did when I was young was all gone due to a hard drive failure. For some reason, you never forget something like that. You are always welcome to come back whenever you would like.

@Narts...

I have a request. Can you give me a spritesheet/.zip folder of all the said sprites that would have been used for Ad-Hoc Wars? We might have some use for them.

I'll leave the choice to you, Narts; Whether you want to continue work on Ad-Hoc or not. I'll support your decision no matter which way you choose. Also, I'll try to balance helping you out with supporting the main project.

Believe it or not, Ad- Hoc Wars has a lot of fans in this community. (stef, JSR, chom-chom, narts, (destin), CO_Frosty). I'd rather modify it than to get rid of it at this point. What do you say?

-JSR...


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2 (Poll Closed)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:13 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
You may be in luck, my english teacher just demanded a short story, 25 pages minimum so I may have a plot for you if I decide to write on a fictional war in my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2 (Poll Closed)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:38 pm 
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Wow, that's good news...

Yeah... If you decide to write on that topic, I would be happy with whatever plot you can add... Feel free to post up whenever you want.

JSR...


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2 (Poll Closed)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:46 am 
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You can base your main project on the foundation built by Ad Hoc Wars if you want, that's what it was created for.

I might still continue the development of Ad Hoc Wars as a separate project (or start a new one), some day, however for the time being I'm probably not going to do much. I don't want to be a drama llama and declare myself gone forever or anything though, because I know I'll keep trolling this place until its physical death (or mine).

Putting the existing Ad Hoc Wars graphics into a beautiful sheet might take some effort, which I don't feel like spending until weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a foundation for Custom Wars 2 (Poll Closed)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:15 am 
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Understood Narts. Whenever you could get it to me is fine. Thanks.


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