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 Post subject: Bunch-Of-Minor-Balance-CO-Tweaks Draft.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:59 am 
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Now where to start....

(as is= as is on the pinned AWDS Balance topic)

Orange Star

Andy

As is

Max

As is. May have the COP changed to the AW2 version...later. But really later. I have other stuff to worry about now.

Sami

As is

Nell

D2D: 15% Luck
COP: 40% Luck
SCOP: 80% Luck

Rachel

As is. Like with Max, I may wipe out a more...huh...consistent statset for Rachel and submit it to a voting or something like that later. But really later.

Hachi
D2D: 95% costs
COP: 85% costs
SCOP: 60% costs

Jake
D2D: 15% plains boost
COP: 30% plains boost (it is 30%, right? >_>) goes to direct vehicles instead. Now that we actually have good specific indirect COs...his COP may need something direct related to stand out.
SCOP: as is

Artemis

As is. Lack of testing.

Nana

On Cut List. Won't care for now <_<.

Sophie
D2D: as is
COP: 2 stars
SCOP: as is. Needs more testings.

Robo-Andy

On cut list. Won't care for now >_>;.

Blue Moon

Olaf

As is

Grit

As is. Requires testings under new circunstances.

Colin

D2D: as is
COP: x0.125 instead of x0.120
SCOP: as is for now. may be tweaked REALLY later.

Sasha

D2D: 107.5% income instead of 110%
COP: as is
SCOP: Multiplier boosted from 50% to 100%

Edge

Can go die in hell. erm, I mean. On Cut List, won't ever care. EVER.

Alexander

As is.

Aira

On Cut list. Won't care for now.

Tempest

On Cut list. Won't care for now.

Green Earth

Eagle

D2D: as is
COP: 100/80 Air, 80/80 Ground, 70/80 Naval, Reanimation for all but inf. 5 stars, according to Xen's balance draft.
SCOP: as is

Drake

D2D: 110/110 navy and 90/100 aircraft.
COP and SCOP: no ammo crap, according to Xen's balance draft.

Jess

As is.

Javier

As is. Requires testing under new circunstances.

Peter

As is.

Conrad

Oh, I won't even bother <_<;. I heard stuffman is taking care of him.

Joey

Oh so many things, lol.

D2D: Charging for APCs are reversed (Joey gets 1/2 and the opponent gets 100%)
COP: 10hp APC spawned on Joey's cities waiting. +20% defense boost for pure transports. Empty APCs disappear next turn.
SCOP: as is.

Smitan

As is. Requires further testings.

Yellow Comet

Kanbei

As is for now. I will probably nerf his infantry to like...110/110 sometime later

Sonja

D2D: 100/100, ?HP +10/-10% Luck, 150/100 Counters
COP: 110/110, ?HP +10/-10% Luck, +2 Vision, Pierce Vision, Induce FoW, 150/110 Counters
SCOP: 110/110, ?HP +10/-5% Luck, -3 Terrain Stars, First Counters @ 110/110

Basically Xen's version with a modified D2D. The COP requires further testings to see if it needs a more....offensive approach.

Sensei

Check Prototype Sensei's topic.

D2D: 110/100 infantries, 120/100 copters and 90/100 tanks/Mdtank/neotank/megatank.
COP: 150/110 Infantries, 140/110 and +1 movement for copters
SCOP: 9hp infantry spawn, 140/110 infantries and 180/110 copters.

Grimm

D2D: 115/90
COP: 155/100
SCOP: 190/100

He received a small nerf since powers occur more often, and it was easily his biggest weakness. I won't make a return to the 130/80 version since it is way too extreme.

Rattigan

As is

Sanjuro

Stuffman is taking care of it.

Minamoto

D2D: current
3/6
COP: 2-tile knockback at 45+ damage, D2D bonus increased to +30
SCO: +1 move, 4-tile knockback at 40+ damage, D2D bonus increased to +30.

Meiyo

In cut list. Won't care for now.

Black Hole

Flak

Imported Xen's balance changes

D2D: +25/-10 luck
COP: +55/-20 luck
SCOP: +100/-40

Lash

D2D: As is
COP: 2 stars
SCOP: D2D and terrain stars are doubled. 6 stars. Basically AW2's Prime Tactics

Adder

As is

Hawke

HAY, LET'S CHANGE THE YARDSTICK!!

<_<

as is

Sturm

D2D: No perfect movement. 90/115
COP: 4HP meteor. 100/125. 5 stars
SCOP: 8hp Meteor. 110/135. 10 stars

Requires further testing.

Jugger

In Limbo. To be decided.

Koal

In Limbo. To be decided.

Kindle

D2D: as is
COP: 2hp damage
SCOP: as is

Von Bolt
D2D: as is
SCOP: back to 120/120

less often powers means better Von Bolt which means nerf.

Ember

As is, I guess.

Melanthe

D2D: as is. For now.
COP: as is
SCOP: damage on natural terrain nerfed to 1hp.

Falcone

D2D: 5% bad luck
COP: as is
SCOP: 2x repair costs.

Napoleon

In Cut List. Won't care for now.

PHEW. only 3 armies to go.

Nerdvana. I mean...Jade Cosmos

Carrie

Cut List

Amy

Requires Hovercrafts testings.

Koshi

Requires further testings.

Adam

I don't ahve any clue of his balance. I heard people tested him a bit. Can someone enlighten me?

Walter

D2D: As is
COP: Doubled to 40%
SCOP: As is

Jared

Cut List

Eniac

Doesn't exist anymore, in theory <_<

Amber Corona

Sabaki

I have no idea <_<;. She could use a couple boosts.

To be decided later.

Yukio

D2D: as is
COP: as is
SCOP: 7 stars for now.

Ozzy

OMG ONE OF THE ACTUALLY COOL AND ALL CCOS!!

as is.

Zandra

As is. Requires testings.

Ain

Cut List

Carmen

Cut List

Eric

Cut List

Edward

as is. Requires further testings.

Mary

D2D: As is
COP: 120/100 Troops. 3 stars
SCOP: 130/100 Troops.

Requires further testings. Mainly the SCOP.

Dark Matter

Cassidy

Cut List

Thanatos

Cut List

Julia

Cut List

Mina
Cut List

Alexis

Cut List

Levenworth X

Cut List

Epoch

Xen is handling it.

Graves

as is.

Talyx

Requires testings.

Varlot

Requires testings.

Xavier

D2D: boost attack as well? it could use something else.

Requires further testings anyway.

Other Stuff

Charge Rate changed from the AWDS point system to a 7000G per star (kinda like AW2's) system.

Phew, that should be all.

Thoughts?

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Last edited by CO_Frosty on Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:12 am 
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Sasha's weird income is yucky but otherwise ok.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:12 am 
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A lot to take in at once. Maybe you should just remove CCOs on the cut list?

Also:
We have good specific indirect COs?


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 Post subject: Re: Bunch-Of-Minor-Balance-CO-Tweaks Draft.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:21 am 
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Max

I agree with the AW2 thing.

Nell

mneh. luck is stupid, but I guess this is the best thing we can do.

Hachi

No deploying from cities?

Jake

Maybe the COP could be +1 direct movement.

Sasha

D2D is ew, SCOP is very yes

Tempest

he is? damn it

Eagle

COP is iffy to me...

Drake

D2D is yay, powers have me kinda worried

Joey

lol k

Smitan

powers need price change imo

Kanbei

I think he's fine, personally.

Sonja

I like it, I guess.

Sensei

Might work... it'd be interesting to see.

Grimm

needs moar know's moveset lol

Rattigan

iffy but okay

Flak

once again luck is hax + he'll never be good as nell etc

Lash

I like the two stars thing but I think her AW2 d2d would work fine.

Sturm

lame, honestly. kick him out of CW lulz

Koal

He is?


Von Bolt

I disagree with -10/10 but it's only a slight complaint.

Melanthe

what

Falcone

sure

Adam

he needs more relevance about him

Walter

Sounds great. A new sprite would totally help him out too. =P [no offense xaif]

Sabaki

Just needs more... power, really.

Yukio

something is wrong here but I can't tell what

Ozzy

His D2D is kind of stupid but that's not much of a complaint

Mary

Looks a bit too good but okay for now.

Talyx

Requires a relevant tech section.

Xavier

agreed

Other Stuff

Might be good, who knows?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:22 am 
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Grit is being saved.

Also, the changes to Minamoto are:
D2D: current
3/6
COP: 2-tile knockback at 45+ damage, D2D bonus increased to +30
SCO: +1 move, 4-tile knockback at 40+ damage, D2D bonus increased to +30.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:24 am 
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Deoxy for the most part he listed just alterations

so with Hachi, he has the city deploy with his COP I think.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:24 am 
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Location: I'd put something clever here, but you'd expect that
Ah, okay.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:25 am 
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Wait, Jake's getting nerfed?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:27 am 
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Deoxy Knight wrote:
Ah, okay.

>_>

I think...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:29 am 
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Fugue wrote:
Wait, Jake's getting nerfed?


Good lord no <_<;.

The D2D was boosted from 10% to 15%

On the COP, instead of getting that hideous situational plains boost, he will get a 30% boost for the direct vehicles, so it is easier to take advantage of. And the D2D plains boost is more than enough IMO.

I am thinking on giving some sort of boost on the SCOP as well, but I dunno.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:38 am 
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Maybe a tank boost, since he's supposed to be such an epic tank commander?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:38 am 
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kiwi wrote:
A lot to take in at once. Maybe you should just remove CCOs on the cut list?

Also:
We have good specific indirect COs?


On a good day I would just micro-manage and go on a case-by-case basis. But we have a deadline and I have tests at the last week of this month and I am planning on taking a 2 weeks break at least from this board in order to prepare myself for it (and to manage my temper and blood pressure <_<). So, huh, I have to do it all at once...so we at least get all obvious changes done and programmed before my break.

As for the cut list COs. I guess it was better to put them there...so people notice I haven't forgotten them just yet.


And yes, we have or will have a good Grit at some point. Also there are Custom COs like Smitan or Meiyo that are indirect specific and whose COPs outshine Jake's under all aspects <_<;.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:38 am 
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:jake:
:skill: +15 attack on plains
:smallstar: :smallstar: :smallstar: :bigstar: :bigstar: :bigstar:
:power: 130/110 +1 move direct-vehicles, +15 attack on plains, default
:super: 150/110 +2 move direct-vehicles, +30 attack on plains, +1 range, default


woot <_<

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:40 am 
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@Fugue:

That is a possibility. But only for the powers. That on a D2D would do massive damage.

@Deoxy:

Hay, I am Jess >_>;.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:41 am 
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So why would I ever want to use Jess instead of that Jake?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:47 am 
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you talking to me or Deoxy? >_>

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:53 am 
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That's way too many COs for me to care about.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:53 am 
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thus we make Jess a tank Grimm

and we make Grimm crrrrrrrrazy extreme

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:59 am 
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Deoxy.

DTaeKim: If all you want is just IS CO's anyway, why don't you just go to AWBW or something?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:03 am 
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Location: I'd put something clever here, but you'd expect that
because that site loads slowly :(

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:05 am 
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AWBW isn't much better to me, it's just that people actually bother playing. And half the time the site won't even load properly except for the forums. Good to see it's not just this sucky computer having trouble.

So how about those good specific indirect COs?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:07 am 
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Meiyo is delicious :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:12 am 
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She's also headed for the booth again, thank God.

Anyway, Grit is being made viable. Smitan is based on using both directs and indirects. And Zandra and Javier are still gonna win a lot of indirect wars, although they're more about penalizing the enemy's indirects.
Hey, there aren't that many ways you can make an indirect specialist without getting a horrible stalemate-oriented CO like Meiyo or something hideously broken like AWDS Grit.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:14 am 
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I've heard that Adam's D2D is a bit eh, but that the SCOP is absolutely lethal in the right situations.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:27 am 
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For Walter's COP change, will it reflect back 40%? AWESOME

Also, I'm having a game with kiwi to check out Adam. Not gonna be too helpful, considering I'm me, but eh >_>;

BTW

Will the reduced fuel stuff still go through?
Or has it already done so and I never noticed?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:31 pm 
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Fugue wrote:
Deoxy.

DTaeKim: If all you want is just IS CO's anyway, why don't you just go to AWBW or something?


Everyone gets that perception of me, and I don't blame them. All I want is a balanced AWDS. Then we add the custom content in. Obviously, my priorities are very different from the establishment here, and that's where we butt heads.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:43 pm 
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That's probably the main mistake to CW. The chance of seeing your CCO or unit become reality instead of fan fiction was highly appealing and so there was this mad rush to get your custom content in without any regard to how it affected the game beyond this supposed standard of balance. Unfortunately no one played AWDS competitively so no one ever figured that the standard of balance itself was flawed until too late. If people had played sooner there might not be this little mess here now. How can you make a project and then not test it?

Hey people still don't play enough.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:48 pm 
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Hey, IS has had +1 D2D range Grit since AW1. We weren't starting from perfection here. Now that there's an actual community that has the opportunity and desire to play an online AW game at a competitive level, we can start working on the stuff that's messed up and actually fixing it, instead of just changing around who's broken and who's useless.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:13 pm 
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By those sentiments, AWBW is really messed up more.
Do they still have 130/130 Kanbei running around?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:58 pm 
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Yes. In AAA's defense, he did bring Flak up to his AWDS stats and nerf Sami to her AWDS stats a while back.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:22 pm 
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130 offense sami =/= nerf

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:21 am 
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Well, It is way too late for me to pretend the custom content dopesn't exist and then balance just all the AWDS stuff, simply because after we finish just AWDS, the custom content will, for sure, mess up with the entire balance, mainly the units, which will make us start from the begining once again.

The Custom Stuff and IS stuff are way too connected and trying to separate both is just pointless. It is just easier for us to include everything on the same package and balance everything together as the new metagame they are.

As for the CO, I assume the lack of comments means "Go ahead and get it programmed so we can test it", right? or did I miss anything?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:34 am 
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I must be missing something here, but I don't see an issue. Why not just balance the custom units to AWDS after it's all done?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:40 am 
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It all looks fine except for 3 things. I agree with giving Jake a tank offense boost, 110/100 or something. Sonja's vision seems worthless in her COP after using her -2 terrain stars ability. Out of fog all it might as well do is summon fog for 3 stars. And Drake's quite boring but nevermind.

Sure, I have no complaints about this being implemented in the official releases.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:49 am 
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Because their roles will clash?

The Bcraft with the Mdtank, the destroyer with the bship to an extent, etc.

The new IS units were easy to incorporate over the games simply because they are useless, lol. No one builds megatanks, neotanks, carriers, piperunners and bbombs (the last because it is always banned <_<).

The custom units aren't useless, mainly the hovercrafts and zeppelins, and they change the current metagame directly. It isn't just extra units. The zeppelins bring a whole new face to air battles, the hovercrafts is a cheap offensive possibility and alternative for the tank and artilleries, etc. So, more often than not, the possibility of we having to "rebalance" the IS units we have changed in other to make the incorporation as smooth as possible is huge, if not 100%. So, huh, if we are going to balance the AW units together with the Custom Units after we balance the IS units alone, why don't just go to step two and balance everything together? Unless an unit revote occurs and they end up being removed (and I kinda doubt it will ever happen), the CW units will be an important part of the current metagame, and the balance should be done accordingly.

Either way, I am positive that the balance suggested will be good enough with or without custom units, since the only place where it may be edgy are regarding tanks-bcrafts-Mdtanks, and the only change done there was the 1000G MDtank price reduction.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:56 am 
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Xaif wrote:
It all looks fine except for 3 things. I agree with giving Jake a tank offense boost, 110/100 or something. Sonja's vision seems worthless in her COP after using her -2 terrain stars ability. Out of fog all it might as well do is summon fog for 3 stars. And Drake's quite boring but nevermind.

Sure, I have no complaints about this being implemented in the official releases.


1) I prefer to leave for later. The infantry nerf was removed, which means that Jake's COP is actually useful again. I am not sure if the changes I suggested now are enough, so I prefer to just do them, check if they worked entirely and just add somethign else in case they don't.

2) using what? >_>. There is no terrain reduction on the COP, just extra vision, pierce vision and FOW for 3 stars. Once again it is a rather new situation, since we don't have any real idea of how effective FOW just for the opponent (or something close to that) can be, so I prefer to go step-by-step and check how effective a FOW-only power can be...and then add some terrain stars reduction if it ends up being weak or something like that.

3) First balance and then other stuff <_<;. Drake, Max, Rachel and some other COs are on this situation, and I will only check them laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaater...like...in mid-october or so.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:35 am 
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For Sonja I meant using her version in CW ATM. She has -2 terrain stars and I found it very useful and synergic with the piercing vision, I could do things that +2 vision wouldn't help with.

But yeah, I understand what you're going for, I was merely passing comment. I give the green light for implementation =3

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I still disagree with you, but it's of no consequence because it's no secret I'm not a fan of the custom units aside from the destroyer. I'm clearly in the minority here.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:29 am 
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I suppose so.

Well, I plan on at least making the IS units balanced by themselves at some point. But, at least regarding the deadline and such, testing the pure IS metagame with the suggested changes isn't a high priority.

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I am just a product of your imagination. I am not really here.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:08 am 
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I LOVE SUPER STURM

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CoconutTank wrote:
We should equip the Landers with catapults. That way the Landers can throw their loaded units to a nearby open space or to another Lander within 5 range.


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